Interview with Wenda Millard, Vice Chairman, MediaLink
What do a Harvard grad, a 20-year publishing legacy, Double-Click founder, Yahoo! Chief Sales Officer, Media Link, Martha Stewart, and James Beard have in common? The incomparable Wenda Harris Millard of course! Listen in to the story of her amazing rise to the top of every industry she touched. #csuiteradio #csuitenetwork #HoShiMo
Transcript:
Julie (00:01):
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Conversational, I'm Julie Roehm, and today my guest is the fabulous Wenda Millard. She has been a long time, long time friend. I love it when I'm able to get people who I've known forever on the show, because that was really what was the inspiration for this in the first place. Was all the fabulous people that I've worked with throughout my life and career, and their backstories and how those backstories most people don't hear, they only hear about all of their huge amazing accomplishments. I wanted to use this as an opportunity so people could hear their backstories and hopefully be inspired just to know that most people don't set out to do the thing that they end up doing, and being wildly successful at. There's all kinds of turning points and "holy shit" moments in life that get them there.
Julie (00:51):
Without further ado, let me tell you a little bit about Wenda, for those of you who don't know her. She was most recently the president and COO of MediaLink, which she did with a good friend of ours, and, again, another long time friend going all the back, Michael Kassan. Before that she was the co-CEO and president for Media for Martha Stewart Living, Omnimedia Inc, very cool. I want to know a little bit about her stories of working with Martha, and Martha actually lived down the street from where I live now, we'll talk about that. She was the Chief Sales Officer at Yahoo! That's actually where she and I met between '01 and '07. Remarkably about that, being the Chief Sales Officer there, she was part of the team, actually lead the team, that drove revenue from 700 million to more than $6 billion in the six years that she was there. She was a powerhouse and I was back at Chrysler in those days, so I will take credit for some of those $6 billion, I have no idea how much it was, but I know we helped.
Julie (01:59):
Before that she was the Chief Internet Officer of Ziff Davis Media and president of Ziff Davis Internet. Before that she was Executive VP of DoubleClick, I feel like that is a massive turning point, just because she was so on the cusp back then. Before that president and group publisher SRDS, before that Senior VP and publisher Family Circle, before Exec VP and group publisher Adweek, Mediaweek, and Brandweek, before that she was the GM at Working Woman Ventures, and then just before that she went to a little known school and got her MBA from Harvard, and had spent some time in between that and her undergrad, where she, I saw, majored in Shakespeare, which I think is so cool. But she was at New York Magazine, Ladies Home Journal, so lots of cool things that obviously started with publishing, kind of came full circle a little bit, but then with all kinds of super sweet digital stuff in between.
Julie (03:00):
She is one of the most lauded and deservedly so by the way, women in the industry. In 2015, she was included in AOL Women in the Industry. In 2015, she was included in AOL's Makers which is the Women Who made America series, which was created by the Emmy award winning documentary film maker Dyllan McGee. She was named, in 2012, one of the 100 most influential women in advertising in the last 100 years by Ad Age, that is super cool. 2011 received the Oracle award from Springboard Enterprises, in '09, she received the Adtech Lifetime achievement award, in '07 the John Reisenbach award for Distinguished Citizenship, in '06... it goes on and on. Seriously, super on an on. She is amazing. Wenda [crosstalk 00:03:46] I hope I did justice to you, welcome to the show.
Wenda (03:49):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Julie, and thank you for having me. This'll be fun.
Julie (03:54):
It is actually always more fun than I think people imagine. I just think because people's backstories, it's so rich and you've... I know you're living down in Charleston now enjoying the beauty and grandeur of that beautiful town, but were born actually up here in the Northeast, if I'm... Is that right? Or did you move to Massachusetts? I know you were basically raised in Massachusetts, but were you-
Wenda (04:19):
Yeah, I was raised. I was born in Alexandria, Virginia, but raised in Massachusetts, yeah.
Julie (04:25):
So raised up here. Okay, your parents, I think you had said something about your parents having participated in some way with the Korean War, is that right?
Wenda (04:34):
Yes, my father was a translator in the Korean. He's a blond haired, blue eyed guy, who learned to speak Japanese and Korean.
Julie (04:44):
When? [crosstalk 00:04:45]-
Wenda (04:45):
And does to this day, and it's pretty funny listening to those languages coming out of his mouth. It's fun to go to a Japanese restaurant with him.
Julie (04:56):
Oh, my gosh, I bet that's true. Why did he learn them? He just was interested in them?
Wenda (05:01):
He was a translator in the war, and they just assigned that to him. He had to do it whether he was interested in it or not.
Julie (05:11):
Yeah. And your mom, again, this I always find amazing, but your mom also had an early career... I was talking to Jack Meyers the other day and he was talking about his mom who had been in the military too. Your mom was also in that world, right?
Wenda (05:28):
Yeah. She worked for the US government in a top secret job, and she died about five years ago, and she never did tell us what that job was.
Julie (05:41):
That she literally will take... she literally took that to [crosstalk 00:05:44]-
Wenda (05:44):
She literally took it to her grave, so-
Julie (05:46):
Wow.
Wenda (05:46):
... we'll never know, but it was pretty cool.
Julie (05:49):
I bet that would have been... Well, too bad she didn't write it down someplace, I bet that would have been-
Wenda (05:52):
I know.
Julie (05:52):
... something neat to know. And you've got an older and a younger sister, is that right?
Wenda (05:58):
Yep. I am the middle of three girls.
Julie (06:03):
Okay. So it was a house full of girls, and so your father had to learn to speak a different language so he could swear without you guys knowing it. Right?
Wenda (06:14):
Even the cat was female, so, yeah, he didn't stand a chance.
Julie (06:17):
Right. That's funny. Oh, great. When you were young, growing up, I know when you left and went to college... and I want to hear about how you chose Shakespeare. I think I read that you were a Shakespeare... and I actually didn't know that about you, but was it that was driving you? What did you enjoy doing? What did you think you wanted to be when you grew up, when you were a kid?
Wenda (06:42):
Well, I thought I was going to be an actress, and as a matter of fact, I was equity by the time I was 12, because I was performing in the Boston area, and studied on weekends at Emerson College, which has a very strong theatrical and dramatic arts program. I thought I was going to be an actress, and I thought that for a very, very long time.
Julie (07:11):
My youngest son is at college at Emerson, and [crosstalk 00:07:14]-
Wenda (07:14):
It's a small world.
Julie (07:15):
I know. What happened that you decided that it wasn't for you after all? Was there anything [crosstalk 00:07:24]-
Wenda (07:23):
Well, when I went to undergraduate school, I was in a few plays and... I went to Trinity College in Hartford and I went to a couple of shows in New York and started reviewing them for the college newspaper, and I absolutely loved writing, and decided that I liked that more than acting. Yeah, and so that's kind of... And I think also, I was thinking that acting is not a very pragmatic or easy career and I loved writing, I loved anything that had to do with the media, so I just turned my attention to writing, more than acting.
Julie (08:14):
Which actually I thought was a nice segue, because, again, another little story I didn't know about you, this just... As much as you think you know people, there's all these little stories. I had read somewhere that were a very entrepreneurial nine year old in Massachusetts.
Wenda (08:29):
Yes. Yeah. Actually, I started my first newspaper when I was nine. You may remember it, as a matter of fact, it was called the Archer Lane Scoop in Lynnfield, Massachusetts.
Julie (08:40):
Of course, I think I subscribed right up until last year.
Wenda (08:43):
Yeah, and everyone was very nice the first couple of issues, and then later on, when they saw me coming, they would pull the shades down, hoping I wouldn't knock on the door.
Julie (08:55):
No, [crosstalk 00:08:55]-
Wenda (08:55):
I didn't understand the meaning or the importance of discretion. I just reported it as I saw it. But it was loads and loads of fun, and that was my first entrepreneurial experience.
Julie (09:09):
Well, entrepreneurial but also... I was just making the tie knowing that into publishing, where ended up spend a big chunk of your professional life, for sure.
Wenda (09:20):
That's right.
Julie (09:21):
Having had that, plus the writing, it all kind of clicked into place, actually as I was reading that. I also read, we have a... Obviously, we know it's a smaller world than most people think between the Yahoo people Tim Armstrong and [crosstalk 00:09:37]-
Wenda (09:37):
Oh, yeah.
Julie (09:39):
... Cathie Black and all these people who were so instrumental in making the media world what it is today, but I wanted you to tell the story of the first time that you met with Cathie Black and you were interviewing for a job.
Wenda (09:57):
Oh, yeah, that was great. That was a very long time ago, but Cathie was one of only three female publishers in the United States, so first, it was a privilege to even have a chance to meet with her and talk to with her. But we had a couple of good meetings and then we had a third meeting, and at the end of that meeting, she said to me, "I'm going to offer you this job. How much money would you like to make?" This was seriously a long time ago, this was 1979, and because I was an English major, I can listen to things very intently and specifically listening to what people actually said. And what she said is, "How much money would you like to make?" And I looked at her and I said, "I would like to make $100,000." I was 21 by the way or 20 or something.
Wenda (11:07):
"I would like to make $100,000." And without missing a beat, she looked at me and she said, "And so you will, but not here and not now. And this job pays $8800." I said, "I'll take it."
Julie (11:24):
Done. You drive a hard bargain. That's a trip. That is too funny. You were 21 there, was that your first job out of college?
Wenda (11:34):
No, I actually started I think when I was 20, and I started first in PR for the company that owned Redbook and Sport magazine and Women Sports and Family Weekly, and then I went on to work for one of their magazines, American Home, and then Ladies Home Journal, actually [inaudible 00:11:59] owned, and then I went to New York magazine. I think maybe I was 23 or four, yeah, because I had been working for a few years already.
Julie (12:12):
When you did that. How long were you there at Hearst then?
Wenda (12:16):
That wasn't Hearst, that was before Cathie ever went to Hearst.
Julie (12:18):
Oh, that was before she was at Hearst, oh.
Wenda (12:20):
Yeah. We worked for New York magazine, it was independent of any of those big publishing companies. That was a great time.
Julie (12:31):
But how long were you there? Were you there with her-
Wenda (12:35):
I think I was there probably three years, and that's when I decided to go to business school, while I was there.
Julie (12:42):
Why? What was the impetus for that?
Wenda (12:44):
Well, I think it was really two things. One, as I mentioned, there were only three female publishers in the country at that time, and one of them was actually Cathie's mentor, Pat Carbine who was one of the founders of Ms. magazine with Gloria. And I aspired to be a publisher, and I thought with an English major background and not really being particularly disciplines, I was a little bit more ready, fire, and then maybe if I had time I would aim. And I just thought, going back to business school might give me an opportunity to be a little bit more disciplined. And to learn... I graduated from college early, so I... I was just in a rush to get to work. When I was 22, I knew everything, just ask me. By the time I was 26, I knew nothing and I was terrified.
Julie (13:51):
Really?
Wenda (13:51):
Yeah.
Julie (13:51):
You went to Harvard to get your MBA, was it in the mid '80s then?
Wenda (13:55):
Yes, I graduated in 1983, yes.
Julie (13:59):
In '83, wasn't the... I just think about business schools, especially the big ones, I can't help but think about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and going back and [crosstalk 00:14:09]-
Wenda (14:09):
Yeah.
Julie (14:09):
... movie about her, and she was the only one... Even by the early '80s, it was still pretty heavily male, wasn't it? All [crosstalk 00:14:19] business school too-
Wenda (14:21):
[crosstalk 00:14:21] because we had, let's see, I think my class was 18% women. But very, very quickly over the next few years, they ended up equaling out, 50/50, if not a little bit more, now, in favor of women, perhaps.
Julie (14:42):
Yeah, that I'm not surprised by, but I just am always amazed by the pioneers, plus, I know you kind of glossed over it, but I was going to go back. When you said there were three female publishers back when you met with Cathie, and you said, Gloria at Ms. I just hope most people understood that you meant Gloria Steinem at Ms.
Wenda (14:59):
Oh, yes. Okay.
Julie (15:01):
Only because I worry that there's younger people who might listen to this and don't appreciate the fact that these... It's not that long ago, really, when [crosstalk 00:15:10]-
Wenda (15:10):
That's right.
Julie (15:11):
... making a way for us, which is crazy. I just... I guess, it's having young boys and I know you've got kids in their 20s too, I like to ground them a little bit in how lucky they are to live when they live. But speaking of that, when did you meet your husband?
Wenda (15:31):
Let's see, last Thursday was our 37th wedding anniversary.
Julie (15:34):
Oh, my gosh, congratulations. [crosstalk 00:15:37]-
Wenda (15:36):
Thank you. Yes, I like to say I know a lot of people who've been married 37 years, not just to the same person. [crosstalk 00:15:43]-
Julie (15:43):
That's right, exactly.
Wenda (15:48):
We actually met... We went to the same undergraduate school. We both went to Trinity in Hartford, and we met through a mutual friend, when we were both in the City. We're six years apart, so we didn't meet at Trinity, we met afterwards in the City, but were introduced by someone we both knew at Trinity.
Julie (16:11):
So did you... Then you dated and it was like true love and you were married very quickly after?
Wenda (16:16):
I think we were married within two years, because I had decided to go back to business school and I didn't want to get married before business school, so we waited two years. It was about... I got married the year I graduated from business school. Yeah, we just knew.
Julie (16:37):
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And had... You were married, but you were... What year were you married then? I've got to subtract-
Wenda (16:45):
1983.
Julie (16:48):
Okay. The year you graduated from Harvard. Okay, so you guys got married then-
Wenda (16:51):
Yeah.
Julie (16:52):
... and then you proceeded to go to these really amazing executive level jobs with, we talk about, Adweek and Mediaweek, but you were EVP, SVP, an SRDS president, and you were a publisher, huge, huge jobs, I assume were you having kids during that time period too?
Wenda (17:13):
Well, say it again? Was I having?
Julie (17:15):
Children? Did you have your kids during that time?
Wenda (17:16):
Oh, oh, sorry. Let's see, when I had my son, Ben, who just turned 33 two weeks ago, I was at Adweek magazine, and it was kind of wild because no one had ever had a baby in office, because there were almost no female publishers. And so that was actually a good one. I remember I had a dual report, I reported to the president and to the chairman, and I was five months pregnant and couldn't hide it anymore.
Julie (18:02):
Oh, my gosh.
Wenda (18:03):
I walked in one day when they were both together and the chairman's feet were up on the president's desk, and the president was leaning back smoking cigar, feet on his desk also, and I walked in and I said, "Oh, can I interrupt you guys?" And the president pulled the cigar out his mouth and goes, "You just did, what is it?"
Julie (18:25):
Oh.
Wenda (18:26):
And I said, "Well, I am pregnant." And the chairman pulled his feet off the desk and he said, "Well, dear..." Because back then my name was Dear.
Julie (18:41):
Oh, my gosh.
Wenda (18:41):
He said, "I don't know how this happened." And I [crosstalk 00:18:47] looked at him and I said, "Well, the usual way." Then the president took the cigar out of his mouth again and he looked at me, "Goes, well, what are you going to do about it?" And I said, "Well, I'm going to have it." Said, "See you guys later." And, yeah, it was a little crazy back then, because there had been no female publishers, nobody certainly had a baby in office, we didn't have maternity leaves, we had no maternity policy, there were very few nanny agencies... When you were saying before it wasn't that long ago for Gloria, it wasn't that long ago for nanny agencies and maternity leave policies. We didn't even have one. Today, we have paternity, which is awesome.
Julie (19:38):
Oh, it's amazing. Yeah.
Wenda (19:39):
Yeah.
Julie (19:40):
Right. That's what I though too. This is why I wanted to talk... I've never asked you about that, so when you went into their offices, you were an executive vice president, were you not?
Wenda (19:54):
Yes, I was EVP/publisher, yep.
Julie (19:56):
Wow. You went in... You were five months pregnant and they were kind of jaw dropped, no plans, how did that turn... Did you stay until nine months? Did you leave? What happened then with maternity? What happened?
Wenda (20:12):
I said, "I'll be back as soon as I can." And went back after three weeks, and the first night that I was back, was the Andy awards and I was chairing the Andy awards that year, and so that very first night, I didn't want to leave the baby, he was three weeks old, so I dressed him up in one of those one piece little stretchies with-
Julie (20:40):
Little onesies.
Wenda (20:40):
... a bow tie, the onesie with the bow tie and all that.
Julie (20:45):
Oh, my gosh.
Wenda (20:45):
And stuck him under the podium [cross talk 00:20:49]-
Julie (20:49):
You are lying.
Wenda (20:50):
Yeah.
Julie (20:51):
In a baby... No.
Wenda (20:52):
I just stuck him under in a basket. No, no a 1000% true. Somebody said, "What's that noise?" And I said, "What noise? I don't hear anything." That was Ben's first black tie event, he was three weeks old.
Julie (21:09):
Oh, my God. That is hysterical. Okay, how long after that did you decide to leave? How did you decide to leave as an EVP? I guess because you were never going to get the next level job because of these men who were there? Or was it some other reason?
Wenda (21:26):
No. It was much more... I had a really, really great time there, learned a lot, and it was just so much fun that I had such a strong entrepreneurial itch that I really needed to scratch. I actually left... Well, I had my second child, my daughter, and then... What did I take that time? I guess, I took six weeks with her. And then I started a business with four other guys, and it was basically a creative consulting company that focused on helping mostly magazine publisher, and it was called the Peer Group, it was awesome. It wasn't a dissatisfaction with things at Adweek, it was much more I just had to be that entrepreneur again.
Julie (22:24):
And go do something, yeah, that was itch, because I noticed on your formal resume there's a gap between '89 and '92, between Adweek and Family Circle, so that makes sense.
Wenda (22:35):
Oh, is there a gap on my resume? Oh, interesting.
Julie (22:37):
Well, the one that pulled, so yes.
Wenda (22:40):
Oh [crosstalk 00:22:40]-
Julie (22:40):
But I know the most recent... Look, I know DoubleClick on, of course. I was like, "I didn't know about all the ones."
Wenda (22:46):
Right.
Julie (22:47):
Yeah.
Wenda (22:49):
I did that, and then I left Adweek to do that, did that for a couple years, but then Adweek had really fallen into disrepair, if you will, and so they asked me if I would come back and do the turnaround, and I was like, "Yeah, I'm kind of in the mood to do that," because my partners, who were fabulous and hugely talented, at the Peer Group, were at a different stage of life than I was, and they didn't want to conquer the world and they were a lot slower and-
Julie (23:21):
Isn't that funny? And they were men.
Wenda (23:24):
Yeah. It's an interesting lesson, if you do go into a business where you have partners, your life stage and what you want to do and how hard you want to work, it's something to really consider. We had a great run, great clients, a lot of fun, but I did decide to go back and do the turnaround at Adweek. And I guess that was really my first turnaround job.
Julie (24:00):
And you loved it.
Wenda (24:02):
I loved it. I absolutely loved it. Fortunately, we were very successful and we sold the company within the year, and that was a lot of fun. Yeah, that began the beginning of my clean up and startup work.
Julie (24:22):
Sure, the fixer role you had. Right? Yeah.
Wenda (24:24):
Yeah. Definitely.
Julie (24:25):
[crosstalk 00:24:25], right?
Wenda (24:26):
Yeah.
Julie (24:26):
I'm going to jump forward a little bit to DoubleClick, because... You went to DoubleClick in '96 and-
Wenda (24:35):
Right.
Julie (24:35):
... I've given a bazillion speeches on the world wide web for people that don't know what www stood for, which is crazy. [crosstalk 00:24:43] my kids, do you even know what www... When that was created was, I think, '94, the very first internet ad was in '95.
Wenda (24:52):
I think so, yeah.
Julie (24:53):
I give a presentation, it's a banner ad that says, I think it says something like, "Have you clicked here yet?" And it's an arrow and it's pointing to something, and it says, "If not, you will." It was by AT&T. It's a fun fact, it was the first one. But thinking about that in '95, and then you in like, literally, the year after the very first ever ad runs on the internet, you go to DoubleClick. First of all, it's astounding, you're the EVP, they chose wisely, but what... After all this publishing what was the impetus to be like, "Yep, going to DoubleClick." A totally different... totally different than what you've been doing. I just am fascinated by that. What was [crosstalk 00:25:34]-
Wenda (25:34):
Yeah, well, I don't want to call it a crisis, but something really interesting happened because I actually spend 20 years in publishing and I always wanted to be the head of Time Inc. That was it in those days. And all of a sudden, I started feeling like, "Well, I don't actually know if I want to be the head of Time Inc anymore." And there was a little bit of, I don't want to say panic, but I'm like, "Wait a minute, I've been looking at this my whole life, and you don't want to do it." It was a little bit unnerving, because I always assumed that I would pursue that. I got a phone call one day that changed my life.
Julie (26:20):
What was it?
Wenda (26:21):
It was the head of an ad agency who I knew very well, who said, "Listen, my partner and I are going to be investing in a company. It's called DoubleClick and we're trying to figure out if the founder is a genius or a lunatic, and we'd actually love you to take a look at this and offer up your opinion." I said, "Nah, I know you too well. You want me to look at it because you want me maybe to go over there." And I said, "Let me tell you something, this is this new media stuff, right?" And he said, "Yeah." And I said, "Well, look, I am too old, I'm overdressed, and I don't want to work with geeks, so I don't want to do that." And then of course, I did it, and it was obviously, remarkably... I felt remarkably privileged to be at the beginning of an entirely new media. It was like the beginning of television.
Julie (27:27):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.
Wenda (27:29):
And absolutely brand new and it was insane, and of course, people thought we were insane. That was sort of serendipitous because it occurred just as I was thinking, "Oh, no, after all this, I don't want to do what I thought I wanted to do?"
Julie (27:50):
Right.
Wenda (27:51):
Yeah, saved by the bell.
Julie (27:53):
It was a very "holy shit" moment, which I always talk about. This is... You go around thinking I want to run Time, and then there's like this "holy shit" moment, this realization, the panic, like, "Oh, my God, everything I've been driving-
Wenda (28:03):
Working toward. Yeah.
Julie (28:04):
... is not what I want." And then you take this leap of faith to this totally crazy industry, in this thing that might be a flash in the pan called the web, you know what I mean? Right?
Wenda (28:14):
Totally.
Julie (28:17):
Near the bubble era, if I recall, which was super risky. You went in, and kind of thinking about that all that was going on in the late '90s and early 2000s, was that not at the very eye of the privacy storm that was-
Wenda (28:38):
Yeah. Well, what happen is we had a few years before that occurred, but we ended up in the eye of the privacy storm, because we bought a company that had the potential for us to get ahold of personally identifiable information, and it wasn't at all what we were up to. But USA Today, built out this story that that's what we were up to, and it was really an extraordinary experience to go through, because we ended up being sued by I think it was, I don't know, 37 attorneys general filed suit against us, and we were just... We could do no wrong prior to that, and then of course after all the investigations and a couple years past and we were completely exonerated. That was a little upsetting because so much damage had been done.
Julie (29:40):
Right. How did you... When you left, what was the circumstances that you left in 2000?
Wenda (29:46):
What happened was that we had had, I guess, about five years or so, five or six years, and we had built it from absolutely nothing. A few of us sitting around a pizza box going, "I don't know, what do you think?" And we built to a $450 million company, all of that money from advertising, and it was really quite an amazing build. We went from a dozen of us to 2300 people in the first four years. But what had happened is that the... And we took the company public, and the board, and I think the original founder, didn't love the cyclicality and the uncertainty of the advertising business, and they kept want to move more and more toward being more of a real technology versus media firm, and trying to figure out ways to generate revenue from technology.
Wenda (30:53):
And I just was like, "That's not what I want, I'm a media person." I think I was also... They always said that a year in the internet space is like a dog's life, it's like seven years. And I felt like I had been at DoubleClick for 35 years, and-
Julie (31:15):
Wow.
Wenda (31:15):
Yeah. It was time for a change.
Julie (31:19):
It was time move on. And so you went back to... I love that you went back to the media world, but in an internet capacity now, which by in 2000, I'm certain there were very few people with the internet experience that you had at that time.
Wenda (31:36):
Yeah, that's right. And I went over to be president of Ziff Davis Internet and this was after they had spun off their first digital business to CNET, so this was kind of starting all over again, and that was really fun. That was fun, but it was right at the time that the technology sector was just going through hell. Everything in the magazine world was going through hell, and they were driving most of their revenue still from magazine publishing. And then the two owners got in a very, very bad and public spat and I was like, "I am way too old for this, and I am way too young." I had kept turning Yahoo down. They were looking for someone to turn that around from an ad sales standpoint, and I just thought, "Well, that's exhausting." I loved the idea, because it was such a mess, it was such a hairball.
Wenda (32:46):
But I kept saying, "No, no, no, I don't think the timing is right." And then I decided, "You know what? It actually is very right." I quit Ziff Davis to go run Yahoo sales.
Julie (32:59):
The sales in '01. And I think today, again, I like to give perspective, because I think people think about Google and they think about Yahoo and they're like, "It's like Coca Cola [crosstalk 00:33:14]-
Wenda (33:14):
Right.
Julie (33:15):
... it's been around forever." It's not. Yahoo was actually out, I had to look it up, because I didn't... I think they started in '94, Google started in '98-
Wenda (33:25):
Right.
Julie (33:26):
Here you are in... Yahoo, was the thing. I totally [crosstalk 00:33:30]-
Wenda (33:29):
That's right.
Julie (33:30):
And it was the big... That yodel, that Yahooooooo.
Wenda (33:32):
Yahoooooo.
Julie (33:32):
Right.
Wenda (33:35):
Yeah.
Julie (33:37):
[inaudible 00:33:37], that was the thing, Yahoo, was so cool. Google was like whatever, this crazy Google thing.
Wenda (33:43):
That's right.
Julie (33:43):
I remember so clearly, and that's when we met of course, because we started, I was at Chrysler-
Wenda (33:49):
That's right.
Julie (33:49):
... running marketing there, we were [crosstalk 00:33:51]-
Wenda (33:51):
Yeah, you were way, way ahead of your time there, from a marketer standpoint.
Julie (33:55):
Well, yeah, I knew how to spend our money well, but that was... It would have been smarter to be on the side you were on, but it was fun to do. We did do well-
Wenda (34:06):
You did great stuff.
Julie (34:08):
It was great. You were there six years, and obviously helped them immensely, and then you went over, which is one of the most... Just because it's pop culturally fun to think about, going to work for Martha Stewart. How did she entice you to go over and work for her? [crosstalk 00:34:26]-
Wenda (34:26):
Well, interestingly, at the time that Yahoo kept asking me if I would go over and run sales, Martha, who I'd known for a long time, was asking me if I would come over and be president of the US for her. It was kind of an interesting thing, because Martha at the time could do no wrong, and her business just kept going up an up and up, and meanwhile, Yahoo, was as I said, I was a hairball, what a mess. So I chose the hairball, because I thought it was more interesting. And then what was really interesting, when Martha was convicted, she-
Julie (35:16):
What year was this by the way?
Wenda (35:16):
What's that?
Julie (35:17):
What year was that that she was convicted?
Wenda (35:19):
Let's see, that would have been 2004, I think.
Julie (35:26):
Okay, so in the middle of your... Well, actually, but before you went, she was convicted.
Wenda (35:31):
Well, yes, because what happened was that I ended up on the board after she was convicted.
Julie (35:36):
Oh.
Wenda (35:37):
And I had turned her down a while back because it was more of a celebrity board and that wasn't really very interesting to me, but then when she was convicted and they were remaking the whole board, I said, "Yeah, I'll definitely look at that." I went on, when they were remaking the board, and I ended up having the best of both worlds. I was working for Yahoo, and I was on the board of Martha. So it was pretty awesome.
Julie (36:02):
But then they tried to... Then in '07 they were successful in getting you to come off the board and then go in and literally be the co-CEO and president.
Wenda (36:10):
Right, right.
Julie (36:12):
How'd they do that?
Wenda (36:13):
Well, that was... The thing with Yahoo is I had told them I would stay for three years. That I would do the turnaround, get them on the right path, and then go, but we were having so much fun that I stayed well over six years. And so again, it was time to go, and I'd had a great run, but you've got to know when to fold them as they say, and I was particularly interested in trying to answer marketer's questions about, "Well, what is intelligent integrated marketing look like? We know it's not all TV, it's not all radio or all print or all digital, how do you intelligently integrate all of these media opportunities?" I thought, "MM, that's really interesting." Yeah, there was really only one other company, ESPN, that I thought had the diverse asset base that Martha had.
Wenda (37:17):
She had readers, she had listeners, she had viewers, she had users, and she had shoppers. Talk about a Petrie dish for trying to answer that question about intelligent integrated marketing. And the time was great, I always loved the brand, so I said, "Okay. I'll do that." And it was fun for me, because I got to put all of my experience together [crosstalk 00:37:46] and use everything that I had learned over those years. Yeah, so I went and did that.
Julie (37:54):
Which I know was fun, I remember going to dinner and just... It's just fun to think... And where I live now in Westport, Connecticut is literally a block down the street was the house that she lived in when she was... She doesn't live her anymore, but when she lived-
Wenda (38:07):
That's right.
Julie (38:09):
It's just still fun to think about working... She's still such an icon, and I just love her [crosstalk 00:38:15]-
Wenda (38:14):
At 79 years old, she is still.
Julie (38:19):
Yep.
Wenda (38:19):
Yep, she's amazing.
Julie (38:21):
She's a force, no doubt. And then our mutual close friend, Michael Kassan, who I think if people don't know Michael Kassan... It's an important part, because my guess is that it is a strong pull for why you decided to join him. But Michael I also met, again, probably around the same time I met you, but a totally different circumstance, he'd come and he was brokering deals with some other really big properties in LA, and he was a lawyer and-
Wenda (38:47):
Right, right, right.
Julie (38:48):
He fancied himself, and fancied himself because it's a 100% true, the world's best connector. He [crosstalk 00:38:56] ridiculous, and he's just such a giving... he's just so giving and just so selfless, I always find, in terms of what he's willing to do for others. I remember when he started MediaLink, I think before it was even called MediaLink, when he was just starting it basically to formalize it. And I remember when I had heard that you'd gone over, I was just like, "Oh, my God, this just makes so much sense." Because somebody with your background and your business understanding and, to your point, the strategy and this integrated... Basically, coming and putting more structure around, I think, all of his connectiveness and create it-
Wenda (39:33):
Yes, yeah. What happened was that... Michael and I had known each other, I think, well, now it's well over 25 years, but he said to me one day, "When are you going to leave Martha Stewart?" And I said, "Oh, funny you should ask, I'm actually thinking about that right now." And he asked me what I was going to do, and I said, "Well, actually, I'm going to start a company." And I described what I was going to do, and he said, "Oh, don't do that, we shouldn't be competing. We should be working together." We ended up talking about it for probably six months or so, and I'm not a loner, so I didn't necessarily want to start this company alone, and Michael really needed help on the business side, in structuring it and all that. So you're right, it made a tremendous amount of sense. It's been... It was 11 years in April.
Julie (40:34):
Wow.
Wenda (40:35):
Yeah. We sold the company, after building it up, we sold it after eight years. And then I moved to London to open up MediaLink Europe, and then in March, my contract was up, and I decided not to renew it, not wanting to work for somebody else, which after you've been an entrepreneur, who wants to do that [crosstalk 00:41:05]. But we sold the company and that was great, so I stayed for three years, and I still retain my Vice Chairman's title and do a little consulting for them, helping out and carrying the flag, all those good things. It was a great run. It was a great run.
Julie (41:25):
I love that. And I love that you're back in Charleston and I want... I'd love to hear what you're thinking about next, but I want you to definitely talk about... It's just, again, a little fun thing that I generally knew but I didn't know how, I guess formal your love of food and... Which, of course, makes total sense, with your work for Martha, but your love of that, and you're... to be a foodie, I did not know that you were the trustee for the James Beard Foundation.
Wenda (41:59):
Yeah, I actually... That was a turnaround, believe it or not. This is now about, I don't know 14 years ago, they caught the director of the James Beard Foundation with his hand in the till. Who could imagine stealing from rising chefs, just dumb, but anyway, the board needed to be remade, again, and I had long been very passionate about the food world and they were looking also for people who understood marketing and media and all that, and so about 14 years ago I went on the board, and had a wonderful, wonderful time doing that turnaround. And then I'm actually emeritus now, because as many terms as I could. But I'm still very, very involved, and I help them out on their marketing committee and buy a lot of stuff at their auctions.
Julie (43:04):
[inaudible 00:43:04].
Wenda (43:04):
I'm involved in the food scene down here in Charleston, which as you probably know is one of the greatest food towns in the country.
Julie (43:19):
Yeah, love it.
Wenda (43:19):
Yeah, it's fantastic.
Julie (43:19):
[crosstalk 00:43:19] it's my favorite thing to do, all over the world. I do food tours, everywhere we go my family knows that's our first stop is we do a food tour. Unless [crosstalk 00:43:27]-
Wenda (43:26):
It's the best.
Julie (43:27):
... stops, because you want to [crosstalk 00:43:28]. Oh, my God, it's the best way to know where you are and it [crosstalk 00:43:32]-
Wenda (43:32):
Exactly.
Julie (43:34):
This is great. The last thing I'll finish with because I think this also speaks to who you are and sort of just pulls it all together, you are such a give back person, always have been there to help anybody. A 100% responsive, you've never not answered an email from me. You're just one of those people, and you've got this really fabulous fun, fabulous, fearless females [crosstalk 00:44:00] FFF that you host, right? Which is dedicated to the bringing women together, right?
Wenda (44:07):
Yes. I've done that for so many, many years because I've been privileged to always hold jobs where I met a lot of people in the industry, just it was always a part of my job. When I was at Adweek, my job was to know everybody in the media. So many of my jobs brought me front and center and just sort of knowing everybody, it was very natural for me if I found out so and so doesn't even know so and so, I'm like, "Wow, I'll fix that." For years, I've done salons at my home many times during the course of the year and then I started doing an annual one with a friend of mine in Charleston, and that's been 11 years worth of that, and I just... When I was growing up in the business, people we incredibly generous with and it makes difference, it matters.
Julie (45:08):
It does matter.
Wenda (45:09):
Yeah.
Julie (45:10):
I think that you were... Even despite the fact that, I think, as much as you're known for publishing, you're also a pioneer in the internet and digital world. You've always said that people so underestimate that human to human networking that-
Wenda (45:30):
Yes.
Julie (45:30):
... we're not going to survive if we all live via an algorithm, I think, right?
Wenda (45:35):
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Julie (45:37):
Right.
Wenda (45:38):
And I still believe that. I still believe that and I think in this current situation that we're all in all over the world, I think we're going to find that the lack of human one to one, eye to eye, face to face connection we're going to pay some penalties for that. I don't think that there's any substitute for connecting human to human, and I think that's one of the reasons... Do you remember how long it took for video conferencing to takeoff-
Julie (46:14):
Oh, right.
Wenda (46:15):
And still would rather jump... not right now, but people in the past how ever many years would rather jump on an airplane and have a meeting face to face than-
Julie (46:24):
Of course.
Wenda (46:25):
... versus video.
Julie (46:26):
There's so much to be gotten from just the gesturism-
Wenda (46:30):
That's right.
Julie (46:34):
... all that that you get, and this is how you learn the backstories. When you're limited to this window of the Zoom time of whatever, it doesn't feel as natural or comfortable, and you don't open as much, I don't think, if the person's-
Wenda (46:49):
That's exactly right.
Julie (46:49):
Right.
Wenda (46:50):
Exactly right.
Julie (46:50):
That's why I love doing these, because I spent a lot of quality time with you in the flesh, so-
Wenda (46:56):
Yes, that's right.
Julie (46:58):
So this is perfect, this is a perfect way, actually to end, because that's exactly... I'm so excited that you shared your story, because I know I have always been inspired by it and I love that you were able to share so much and hopefully the listeners will just come to appreciate, not only I think the lessons that you've taught, but just the incredible things you've done and if I had to... Your fun, fearless, fabulous that you have is a perfect description of actually who you are. Everything from just being driven and not being afraid, that fearless really sticks out to me, so big inspiration and despite things maybe not having lived out the way you thought they would, it never dissuaded you. So I love that about you, so thank you for sharing your story with us.
Wenda (47:50):
Yeah, no. Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. A little walk down memory lane for me.
Julie (47:55):
Yeah, yeah. It's great. All right, thanks Wenda.
Wenda (47:58):
Great, thank you Julia, thanks.