Julie Roehm

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Amy Oestreicher - Podcast with Julie Roehm

Julie Roehm
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“Today, April 7th, 2021, this beautiful soul passed away after less than 34 years of life on this Earth. Her story is one of the most inspiring I’ve ever been witness to. I know no one that has endured so much and given even more. Boundless hope and optimism were her hallmarks. I hope you’ll join me in honoring her life by listening to her story.” - Julie Roehm

Original podcast posted on January 9, 2020

“Amy Oestreicher, a PTSD specialist, Audie award-nominated playwright, performer, author and true survivor has made her mess, her message. Sexual abuse, literally becoming “gut” less, didn’t stop her from her dream... but it did transform it. Listen in to this episode of The Conversational. #hoshimo” - Julie Roehm 

In the tapestry of life, resilience often emerges as the most vibrant thread. This concept is beautifully embodied by Amy Oestreicher, an artist, writer, and speaker who turned adversity into a source of creativity and inspiration. Her story was eloquently captured in an interview conducted by Julie Roehm, a marketing strategist renowned for her insights and empathy.

Amy's journey took an unexpected turn when a life-threatening condition abruptly derailed her planned path. Despite the darkness that encompassed her, Amy found the strength to channel her experiences into an array of creative outlets. Through her writings, art, and speeches, Amy turned her narrative of survival into a beacon of hope for others navigating their storms.

Julie Roehm's engaging dialogue with Amy reveals the raw and profound resilience of this remarkable woman. The interview is a testament to Amy’s unwavering spirit and her ability to transform personal tragedy into a source of communal enlightenment. Roehm’s thoughtful questions and empathetic approach allowed Amy’s narrative to unfold in a moving and authentic way.

As Amy shared her journey, Julie Roehm delved into the nuances of her experiences. They discussed Amy’s health crisis, her discovery of her artistic talents during her recovery, and her subsequent work spreading positivity and strength through her art, writings, and talks. Julie's inquisitive nature and warm rapport encouraged Amy to open up about her experiences, providing a depth to the conversation that truly resonated.

Amy's story, as illuminated by Julie Roehm, is a testament to the power of resilience and the human spirit. As Amy eloquently stated, "Our scars are like beauty marks – they're proof of the journey we've been on." This message, interwoven in Amy's narrative and her creative works, serves as a beacon of hope, encouraging others to embrace their own journeys with courage and resilience.

This interview is a testament to Julie Roehm's skillful ability to bring out the best in her subjects, allowing their stories to unfold in a manner that resonates with her audience. Julie’s empathetic approach and insightful questions provide a platform for individuals like Amy Oestreicher to share their stories, spreading a message of resilience and hope.

In the face of adversity, Amy Oestreicher found a path of creativity and inspiration. Julie Roehm masterfully unveils this journey, leaving us with a powerful narrative of resilience and the indomitable human spirit. When the dust settles, it is clear that there are lessons to be learned from Amy's journey, eloquently brought to light by Julie Roehm. Let's take these lessons to heart, as we navigate our own pathways, creating our own vibrant threads in the tapestry of life.

"The Conversational," a podcast by Julie Roehm, is a cornerstone of insightful dialogues, a meeting point of intellects where the power of words shapes the future. Fueled by Julie Roehm's dynamism and her passion for innovation, it serves as an arena where ideas are exchanged, and voices of transformational leaders are heard.

Get to know more about Amy:

About ‘The Conversational’ Podcast

"The Conversational," a podcast by Julie Roehm, is a cornerstone of insightful dialogues, a meeting point of intellects where the power of words shapes the future. Fueled by Julie Roehm's dynamism and her passion for innovation, it serves as an arena where ideas are exchanged, and voices of transformational leaders are heard.

Julie Roehm, a titan in marketing and business strategy, adds an extra layer of depth to every interaction. Her experience, coupled with her instinctive inquisitiveness, unlocks unexplored perspectives, making "The Conversational" more than just an auditory experience. It's a platform that bridges the gap between listeners and leaders, creating a channel for knowledge and inspiration.

Navigating through diverse industries, Julie Roehm explores the intricacies of technology, healthcare, marketing, and entrepreneurship. The podcast is a goldmine of stories — tales of challenges, triumphs, and visions that shape the future of these sectors. With Julie Roehm at the steering wheel, the journey is as enlightening as the destination.

The Conversational isn't merely a series of dialogues. It's a masterclass in understanding our ever-evolving world, a compass for those navigating the labyrinth of life and business. Julie Roehm's role is pivotal, her voice a beacon guiding listeners towards enlightenment and transformation.

Transcript:

Julie: 00:00 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to this episode of The Conversational. Today I am here with Amy Oestreicher. She is a PTSD specialist, an Audie award-nominated playwright, performer and multidisciplinary creator. She is a sought-after trauma-informed teaching artist, which is a title I've never heard before, but it's going to make a ton of sense to you when you hear from her. She's an author, a writer for the Huffington Post, an international keynote speaker, an RAINN representative and health advocate.

She's given three TEDx Talks on transforming trauma through creativity, and interestingly enough, she holds the record for the only woman to give TEDx talks for three consecutive years. That's pretty cool because that's a hard thing to do. She's been featured keynote speaker for national conferences, including the Pacific Rim Conference of Diversity and Disability, the International School of Social Work Conference, and Women of Resilience. Makes a lot of sense, knowing your story.

She's toured her autobiographical musical, easy for me to say, Gutless and Grateful, to over 200 venues. She's currently developing her full length play, Flicker and a Firestarter, on the dichotomies that emerge after trauma, and More Than Ever Now, which is a play based on her grandmother's story of survival. She most recently premiered her one-woman multimedia musical called Passageways at HERE Arts Center for which she created music, book, lyrics, and artwork. She's also recently published her memoir, My Beautiful Detour: An Unthinkable Journey From Gutless to Grateful. I'm looking at her, she's ridiculously young, and her bio goes on and on and it's super impressive, so thank you Amy for agreeing to join me here.

Amy: 01:47 Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you.

Julie: 01:51 I am so excited to get your story. I know a little bit about it. I've seen a couple of your interviews. I haven't read your whole book, but I have read little passages from it, and of course, I know your mother. This is how we knew each other. Before we get into the meat, I think it would be interesting for people to get grounded in just who you are and your background. Tell us a little bit about how you grew up. Obviously your parents play a big role in your life, but also your grandparents since you have devoted a piece of work to your grandmother, so will you give us a little background?

Amy: 02:26 Well, I grew up right around here actually in Fairfield, Connecticut, and I had a really nice childhood. I had three really supportive brothers, and obviously you know my mother and my father. I was really raised knowing that creativity was a really big passion of mine, and I was very supported to follow that creativity wherever it led. I grew up just loving musical theater. That my world. It was always how I just connected to the outside world around me. For me, it wasn't just being on stage and playing a role. It was being on stage, and I can tell a story through someone else's voice. I think that always gave me this magical superpower feeling as a kid, like, "Wow, I feel so connected to all the stories around me," so it made me grow up very curious about the world.

Julie: 03:31 Did your... Was your... I know I think your dad is more like numerically-driven. Is that right?

Amy: 03:37 He's a doctor.

Julie: 03:38 He's a doctor, but more, I guess I was thinking more science and numbers and analytics.

Amy: 03:42 I guess I had that from him, and plus his sarcasm and humor was always good. Then my mother, she always says she was an artist, but she always loved creativity and music, so growing up in the house, I knew all of the old Barbra Streisand movies, and that was how I grew up too singing along with her albums. But I remember my mother would take me to my three brothers' sports games growing up, and she would always give me like a creativity craft kit to like-

Julie: 04:20 To do.

Amy: 04:21 ... do on the lawn or something. I remember always being able to pull out that creativity out of my back pocket, and it was [crosstalk 00:04:29]-

Julie: 04:29 So she kind of was a... What about... I know in your bio, you're dedicating some work to your grandmother. How did your grandparents play into your development?

Amy: 04:40 A huge part of my development. I was lucky that my grandparents, they lived in Queens, and they came to visit all the time. Growing up, I knew that my grandmother was a Holocaust survivor. Obviously, that means more to you as you learn more about it growing up. It was so interesting for me growing up with her because she was always this positive, generous, warm person.

Obviously, as I was able to really understand what the Holocaust was and what my grandmother had survived... At 18 she was a prisoner of Auschwitz... really, really perplexed me how could she be so generous and giving. Then I realized it was that kind of spirit that enabled her to survive, so that obviously meant more to me as I went through my own traumas, but growing up, it grounded me in what's important in life no matter what.

Julie: 05:47 Well, we'll get on a little bit to, as we get into your more professional career about what you're doing kind of in her honor, but knowing a little bit about your story and I think what you're about to reveal, it makes a lot of sense now that why you're so successful and why you thrive the way that you do given all that you've encountered because you've got such great role models like your grandmother. It's really an amazing thing. We know your... You love... You're the artist piece, so let's fast forward a little bit-

Amy: 05:47 Got it.

Julie: 06:16 ... to high school. Bring me through there. What happened there, and how did you think about your career and what you were going to do next. What did you stumble into?

Amy: 06:27 Well, high school, I always felt really lucky because I thought, "Wow, it is so cool that I'm so focused and driven and know exactly where my life is going to go,"-

Julie: 06:38 Which is super unique. Most kids don't.

Amy: 06:40 Right. No, I really had a really a very diligent work ethic. I always loved learning, and I love theater, so I knew whatever I wanted to do, it was going to be something in musical theater and something where I could keep creating. Theater and the arts just seemed like the perfect vehicle. I mean, I remember loving AP bio because I remember looking at the diagrams of the cell, and I'm like, "Oh my God. Lipid bilayer and look at how all those cells go back and forth." I'm like, "That's like a dance in action,"-

Julie: 07:18 Oh, my.

Amy: 07:18 ... so I was always seeing the creativity-

Julie: 07:20 In everything.

Amy: 07:21 ... by in everything. I think high school, I had this very odd mix of this childlike wonder and this kind of old soul philosophical approach that made me love theater and also made me look for role models in my life, which is how I encountered my first trauma in high school. I-

Julie: 07:45 No, right. I do... No, absolutely, because given that you were so focused, I know, and again, I happen to know your mom well, but I know that they're very supportive of you and your brothers as well in all of your musical and artistic endeavors. They helped to support you with extra debt in music coaches and... Is that right... through high school? Did you start that early or before you then?

Amy: 08:07 Right. Well, I had always studied with voice teachers growing up, and I had a voice teacher in Connecticut. I was the kind of person that was so focused on everything, so I knew exactly what I wanted to work on in my voice. I remember coming to him with a 10-page list-

Julie: 08:27 How old were you?

Amy: 08:28 I was 15.

Julie: 08:28 15, okay.

Amy: 08:31 With a 10-page list of vocal goals.

Julie: 08:33 Wow.

Amy: 08:34 He looked at me. He's like, "You know what, that is really admirable, but I can't help you with this. I got to give you to my voice teacher." That was how I ended up seeing my first really professional voice coach in New York that coached all the Broadway stars. I was kind of initiated into this whole world of professional musical theater.

I started studying with this other voice teacher in New York when I was 15. Really, he ended up becoming my mentor because I found that not only did he know all the cool up-and-coming musical theater stuff, but he was really the first person that understood that kind of old soul quality of me that loved poetry and philosophy and the deeper meaning behind why I love theater. He became, really, my mentor, and I studied seriously with him for two years. Then when I was 17, I was sexually abused by him, which kind of catapulted me into a whole other world.

Julie: 09:42 How did that... You were 17. Were you a senior in high school? Is that right?

Amy: 09:48 It started the spring of my junior year-

Julie: 09:50 The spring of your junior year.

Amy: 09:51 ... of high school in it lasted for many months.

Julie: 09:57 I don't want to go into the gory details-

Amy: 09:58 Got it. Got it.

Julie: 09:58 ... but when you... I can't imagine when you're that... First of all, you're full of dreams and hope. I mean, unlike, certainly I could've said myself, my kids, you knew exactly what you wanted to do. You were putting in all kinds of extra time and the voice coaches, this person you looked up to, and then you... There's been so much that has gone on, especially we've seen like the gymnastics thing that has blown up in recent years. What was it... Did it happen suddenly? Was it obvious to you that this was wrong? Did it just seem like, well, was there a trusting thing because I know that there's, especially with people that are close to you, it's sometimes, it's not like a stranger coming up, which is like you know that's bad. What was that like?

Amy: 10:47 Well, it's interesting you bring up the gymnastics and the Me Too movement. At this time, 2005, none of that was really big. People didn't talk about this, or at least like sheltered Jewish girls in Connecticut, we didn't talk about this. I was also very sheltered and kind of naive for my age. When it first happened, I didn't even realize it was happening, and I didn't know anything about PTSD or mental health at that time.

I didn't realize that, really, I had gone out of body and dissociated. At that time, I just thought like, "Wow, suddenly I'm kind of a space cadet." I couldn't even associate what was happening to this change I felt inside me. I just figured, "Oh, wait, there's something wrong with me. What happened?" That's usually where the survivor guilt and blame comes from, even though I didn't know what to attribute it to.

I kept going back to lessons thinking like, "I'm just foggy. I don't know what's going on." The outside world saw this change in me too. They didn't understand what's going on. Really, my junior to senior year was really, really an anxious, terrible time for me where suddenly I felt outcast from the world, and I couldn't even put my finger on what was going on. I couldn't talk about it because I didn't know, so my parents didn't know, my family didn't know. That was really just a real blur of a time for me.

Julie: 12:24 Especially with somebody who like you who was so... you had full of so much confidence and-

Amy: 12:24 So driven and focused.

Julie: 12:28 ... so much stretch... Absolutely... to suddenly... I'm sure that everybody around you saw this and just was trying to figure it out. How did you eventually come to terms with what was happening and why? How did that manifest itself finally?

Amy: 12:41 Well, it's interesting, and it's a moment I can so specifically remember, which is why it's in the musical I wrote in my book, which I can talk about, but I remember my way of coping, I could sense the moment something was wrong inside because I would always take nature walks and connect with the trees. Trees were kind of my guiding path since I was a kid. I remember for one of my nature walks, something wasn't clicking. I would always look at the trees and feel this connection in my inner life, and I couldn't find that inner life anymore.

All I could focus on, I couldn't feel my heart, I could just feel my feet. I just focused on, "Oh, my God, I'm just going to feel my feet moving," and everything just became very mechanical and rhythmic. That was the first change I could felt, like I can't feel my heart. I remember I was in Barnes & Nobles one day, and that was really how I just coped in the world just walking and walking through aisles. One day I saw this big yellow book pop out at me, and I just happened to pick it up. It was the book, The Courage to Heal-

Julie: 14:04 Wow.

Amy: 14:05 ... which is a big [inaudible 00:14:08] book for survivors of assault. I remember the exact moment I ended up taking the book out of the aisle and looking at it. I remember seeing the subtitle, and it said, "For survivors of sexual abuse." I remember looking at that and laughing because that title seemed as crazy to me as like, oh for homicide-

Julie: 14:30 Martians. Right, yeah.

Amy: 14:31 ... or whatever, and so I put it back, like, "What am I doing?" But then I ended up going back and taking the book out because something obviously-

Julie: 14:42 Connected.

Amy: 14:43 ... connected, and randomly, I ended up opening to the page of symptoms. I saw the checkbox, like I feel numb, I don't trust myself anymore, I'm nervous, I feel different. That was really like my hallmark movie moment where as I'm scrolling through, I'm like, "Oh, wow, maybe that is me." I feel like I was meant to find that.

Then from then on, it really felt like, "Oh, boy, I'm carrying this knowledge and secret that I don't know what to do with." For a few more months I felt like I was holding a secret inside until finally... and this wasn't until April of my senior year-

Julie: 15:27 It's been a whole year now.

Amy: 15:28 Yeah, and the abuse was still going on. I just didn't know what to do with it. I ended up writing a letter to my high school saying, "Something's just not right, and I need two months off from school to just heal." I was always so academically-driven, and even the headmaster could tell something was wrong with me, so they just said, "You know what, Amy knows what she needs. Give her some months off."

Then I remember telling my mom like, "You know what, for two months I just want to go to the beach with you and walk and talk." Again, my mom has no clue what's going on. It was April, my senior year, and finally, I finally just kept walking and walking with her, and it just came out. That was, obviously... You know my mother, so it was a lot. She took it well for any mother, but it was a lot for her. Then-

Julie: 16:25 Of course.

Amy: 16:26 ... we couldn't heal or anything because then-

Julie: 16:27 Well, she feels guilty, I'm sure, too, because it's like, "Why couldn't I have seen this? Why couldn't... " I mean, it's-

Amy: 16:32 Of course.

Julie: 16:32 ... to your point, the survivor's guilt, it spread around. It affects everybody, all the people around you. I talk a lot about on the podcast, holy shit moments or ho-shi-mos. This was clearly a-

Amy: 16:42 Yeah, I love that.

Julie: 16:43 ... massive one. Both what happened to you, but also I love this finding this book, and for whatever reason it stuck out to you and you were driven back to it, and so on some subconscious level, clearly you knew that there was something that was right about that. How did you end up confronting or what happened that ended the abuse finally and allowed you to sort of move past it? You talked to your mom. That was step one. What happened?

Amy: 17:11 Confronting is a funny word sometimes especially... Well, not funny, but in sexual assault because for years after, I thought a final confrontation was needed-

Julie: 17:25 For closure.

Amy: 17:26 ... and... Right, for closure, whatever that is. Eventually, I learned that the best confrontation or revenge or moving on is really being able to live your life. My final resolution was detoured because right after, immediately, my mom and I were like, "Okay, what is our plan? I have to get, I have to do all of this, and Passover was coming up."

Our first step was, "You know what, we are going to reclaim this holiday for ourselves. We are going to celebrate," kind of in my grandmother's... My grandmother was still alive, but that's what she did to get through, and this was going to be our way of starting our live now. That was two weeks later, and the night of our Passover Seder, that's when I had a really bad stomach ache. Then medical has ensued, and the sexual abuse closure got a little of put off for the time being.

Julie: 18:23 Did he... I mean, and I'm sure... It's funny. There's a couple of things going through my head. One, I had another podcast episode with a woman named Jennifer Gilbert, and she'd been not sexually assaulted but assaulted, stabbed multiple times, 38 times with a screwdriver. Her parting words, and it feels very similar to what you've just said, is that she felt like it wasn't in the struggle or the fight wasn't where she was going to find her peace or her freedom. It was in just basically accepting it. It was in the ability to just give yourself up to it. I think that there's something to that because I think from the outside, we all want to see justice. We want to see like fight against this thing, and sometimes, the best thing for the person is to let go of that anger and that fight-

Amy: 19:21 Well-

Julie: 19:22 ... and just-

Amy: 19:22 Yeah-

Julie: 19:23 ... sit back. No, go ahead.

Amy: 19:24 Well, one thing about that, it is like mourning a loss, like the five stages of grief. You go through the bargaining and acceptance and the anger and all that where you're like, "Yeah, I'm going to get revenge because I have to do this," and then no, it didn't really happen. Eventually, the best way to move on and to forgive and to reclaim your own life is finally when you do find that place of acceptance and with anything.

Julie: 19:50 Right. [crosstalk 00:19:51].

Amy: 19:51 We all have to go through that healthy grieving process with-

Julie: 19:51 So just-

Amy: 19:54 ... any trauma.

Julie: 19:55 It's so true. It says something that you were able to at such a young age kind of come to that, but-

Amy: 20:01 It took time. It took time.

Julie: 20:02 Well, of course, but still, I think it's hard. You should be given more credit as a young person to be able to be so young and with the point where you were just trying to figure out who you were going into adulthood and then this career and this person that you trusted. Again, I see so many similarities with the gymnastics and these young women. It's a real comment on your strength-

Amy: 20:27 Well, thank you.

Julie: 20:27 ... and your ability. Just when you're coming back to yourself, you said you're having Passover. You're at dinner. You have a stomach ache, so here-

Amy: 20:39 It wasn't the matzah-

Julie: 20:39 ... ho-shi-mo number two, right?

Amy: 20:41 Yeah.

Julie: 20:41 So what happens?

Amy: 20:43 Yeah, so I mean, I was leaving the Seder, and it really felt like one of those empowering moments where you think you're on your way.

Julie: 20:52 Rebirth of sorts. Yeah.

Amy: 20:53 There you go. Passover. I just had a bad stomach ache that wasn't going away. I just remember being in really bad pain, and it lasted through the night. It lasted through the next day. I remember lying on my patio the next day just waiting for this to subside. My father came home from work the next day, and he didn't like that my stomach was like distended, which was the first time I've ever heard that word. Everything else I just remember going by really quickly. I ended up being rushed to the emergency room. I just remember screaming at everyone because I was in so-

Julie: 20:53 So much pain.

Amy: 21:37 ... much pain, and then the rest is what was told to me. I guess I was put out, and surgeons cut into my stomach, and my stomach literally exploded because there was so much internal pressure. I had gotten sepsis. I was in a coma for months. That was when the next chapter of my life began.

Julie: 21:59 How many months were you in a coma? Was it an induced coma, or you had fallen into a coma from the procedures? You don't know.

Amy: 22:06 I always-

Julie: 22:06 You were just in a coma.

Amy: 22:07 ... get confused. I always ask my dad because I always get asked this. I have no idea. I should know. I should know. It was a few months.

Julie: 22:15 Wow.

Amy: 22:16 The closest record I have is actually one of my brothers, Jeff, when I was in a coma, he ended up staying in the ICU, and he kept a journal for the first 72 days I was in a coma, which-

Julie: 22:30 Wow.

Amy: 22:30 ... it was very hard to read when I found it eventually because it starts from day one, April 25th, 2005 where it's like, "Took your stomach out, intestines perforated," but what's really beautiful about that, and I incorporated a few excerpts into my book, is you see the real terror of what was happening, and then you see the family kind of make the ICU their new normal. I think that's... You talk about how important support is. That's really what kept me grounded when I finally did wake up from the coma, and it's like, "Oh, boy, now Amy gets the news."

Julie: 23:14 What was the news?

Amy: 23:15 The surgeons waited a little until I was fully alert because I remember foggy memories of waking up from my coma, and it was this kind of newborn child sense of wonder, like, "Oh, I'm coming into the world again." There was that odd fascination, and then dealing with, "Oh, my God, what are these medical things on,"-

Julie: 23:15 Coming out of me.

Amy: 23:44 ... "me? How did I wake up in that hospital?" Then when I was finally conscious and used to the hospital life, I guess, I still remember the resident came in to my room, and he's like, "Hi, Amy. We want to tell you what's been going on." I remember him saying, "Your stomach exploded," whatever that means, "and you can't eat or drink now." I remember asking, "When," and I just remember Dr. Sam sighing, be like, "I don't know." That's the worst. I asked him many times, and I got that. He couldn't guarantee if that would ever happen again or when or even what the next steps were for me. That was a time where I was like, "Oh, boy, I'm here for an indefinite amount of time. Wasn't I about to go to college? What are the next steps?" Dealing with uncertainty for anyone is, especially at 18-

Julie: 24:52 Especially at 18-

Amy: 24:53 [crosstalk 00:24:53].

Julie: 24:53 ... when you're supposed to be graduating and moving on, and you've kind of just come over-

Amy: 24:56 And you hear all your friends are graduating high school in a month.

Julie: 25:00 And you're in a hospital trying to figure out if you'll ever eat again. What does that look like, and how do you... Obviously, you're standing here, and we're in your home, so we know that there's a good outcome. How long? I mean, give us a synopsis of what did that look like, that physical therapy and what were the adjustments you had to make, and how did that change your world.

Amy: 25:25 I wish I could give you like a quick answer.

Julie: 25:28 Oh, no.

Amy: 25:29 No, I know, but I realize that no surgery is a guarantee. The first thing I wanted to know was, "What surgery is needed? How is this going to be fixed?" It was devastating for me to hear that there's no set surgery. We have to kind of figure out if we can find a surgeon who can figure out something to do, so-

Julie: 25:49 It felt like it's something that happens often, right? Was this a case that the doctors-

Amy: 25:53 Not-

Julie: 25:53 ... had ever-

Amy: 25:54 ... often. It hadn't.

Julie: 25:54 Ever?

Amy: 25:54 ... happened before. It's not like you [crosstalk 00:25:56]-

Julie: 25:56 So you were first?

Amy: 25:57 Yep.

Julie: 25:58 That's also scary.

Amy: 25:59 Yeah. We eventually found a surgeon that could come up with some kind of plan at Yale, and it was a two-part surgery. The first part was 19 hours.

Julie: 26:13 Wow.

Amy: 26:13 I first thought I was all done and graduated from sick. Three years later, I actually had my first bite of food on my 21st birthday, which was-

Julie: 26:25 Oh, my gosh.

Amy: 26:25 ... nicely timed, but then I learned that surgeries don't always totally succeed. My wound exploded, and so-

Julie: 26:34 Oh, my gosh.

Amy: 26:34 ... long story short, between all of the many 27 surgeries to fix and refix, it turned into about almost seven years without being able to eat or drink combined. It was tough.

Julie: 26:53 How were you... Just for the people who... I know a little bit of the answer, but what do you mean you can't eat or drink? How do you live if you can't eat or drink?

Amy: 27:02 I always forget to mention that so people won't-

Julie: 27:04 How does that work?

Amy: 27:05 ... freak out. Yes. No. Intravenous nutrition. It's called TPN, total parental nutrition. I mean, it's really an amazing invention because it goes directly through your bloodstream. Because I didn't have any kind of digestive anything. I just had an abdominal cavity so it's not like you could stick a feeding to anywhere, so this went directly through the veins, which isn't so great for your liver in the longterm, but it got the nutrition into me. That was very important.

Julie: 27:39 But that was seven years of dealing with that and just sort of, I'm sure, the awkwardness of... Again, you're still young. You're still young like your friends, and it's still a time when you're figuring out who you are, and you've got this massive right thing going on, and now you can't eat or drink, so I'm sure.

Amy: 27:55 Awkwardness is an understatement.

Julie: 27:56 I can't imagine what that would have been like for you.

Amy: 27:58 Especially because I'm not the kind of person who can just crawl in bed and watch movies, and so I had energy. I was feeling good out of the hospital besides being psychologically starving. My biggest dilemma was, "Okay, how can I be part of the world, but seeing a water bottle is going to make me really upset?"

Julie: 28:24 Upset. Yeah.

Amy: 28:26 I had to find ways to deal with it for... and it's easier I feel like when you know, "It's only for a month, it's only for a week," but just seeing the, "Oh, we don't know," and having to go on from day to day, that's when creativity really became my best friend. I had to find ways that I could still be engaged in the world in the ways I could.

Julie: 28:52 Still express yourself.

Amy: 28:53 Yeah.

Julie: 28:54 How did you... What was your first outlet? Well, actually, let's finish the medical piece because we know... Eventually after... Was it a total of 27 surgeries, or how many have you had now?

Amy: 29:06 Well, I was run over by a car, so now it's 29-

Julie: 29:10 Oh, God.

Amy: 29:10 ... but just digestive system-wise, 27. Those weren't all at once. My last one was in 2012, so they were the constant... nothing ever sealed permanently. Things kept opening. It was in and out of the hospital while still trying to live my life-

Julie: 29:29 Sure-

Amy: 29:30 ... so-

Julie: 29:30 ... which is I'm sure was a huge challenge for you, and you were... so still trying to manage through, but now you were able to get off of the intravenous nutrition and go, eventually, they felt like they had done enough to be able to allow you to eat and drink? Is that... Do you... Were you... Today, I mean, are you able to eat and drink normally?

Amy: 29:52 Yes, because of my 27-surgery, I lost even more intestine, so I don't absorb everything fully. We're still trying to find answers. I'm still going to doctors all over the place for intestinal rehabilitation, but I learned a really long time ago that if I ever wait to start living until this is all done or that's all done, I'll also-

Julie: 30:21 [crosstalk 00:30:21].

Amy: 30:21 ... be waiting, so you got to do your best with what you have, literally.

Julie: 30:26 Yes. Right. But now... So what was it like when you were able to finally now because... so jumping forward. I'm sitting here with Amy, and she's drinking from a cup, so she's eating, and she's drinking. It's not all... I'm sure that that felt like you could be a part... I mean, just that.

Amy: 30:26 Oh, my gosh.

Julie: 30:43 ... little social piece must have been huge for you, things that we take for granted every day.

Amy: 30:47 Oh, my God. One thing I didn't realize fully, I mean, we all know this consciously, but food is more than just for your body. It's really an invitation to world. It can open your mind, and it allows you to be social and have those experiences, again, something I feel like we all know, but I really got to experience that firsthand. I remember... This is probably not the appropriate jump to go like to pizza as soon as I did, but I was so excited-

Julie: 30:47 Wanted a pizza.

Amy: 31:24 I remember taking my first bite, and I remember the first thing I did is I went outside and I called my brother Jeff. I'm like, "Jeff, you don't get it. I just had pizza. I can go out with friends, and I can be like, 'Let's have a pizza night,' or I can go to a movie and then get pizza, or I can have a pizza party." This was like such a revelation for me, but it really felt like I can be with people now and let my guard down. There's nothing holding me back.

Julie: 31:52 That's amazing. I think it is because it's such a social... It's part of the culture. I mean, you think about these... We just had Thanksgiving, we got the-

Amy: 32:00 Oh my, we can have holidays.

Julie: 32:00 ... holidays coming. I'm sure your family felt that too, like, "How do we do this big food-centered centric situation when you can't participate in?" I'm sure it was really hard.

Amy: 32:12 Well, we actually... I spent every major holiday in the hospital at one time or another, and I've spent Thanksgiving at Mount Sinai, but the hardest holidays when I couldn't eat were always at home. I read about this in my book that I remember one Thanksgiving that I couldn't eat, that's the worst because I would usually go out and like walk through stores to distract myself, but on Thanksgiving, everything's close. Everyone is at home eating.

I remember taking a walk outside with my dad, and we were at the beach at that time so you could hear like silverware on people's plates through the screen doors and the football games playing. I remember asking, "Dad, are we ever going to have Thanksgiving again?" He couldn't say yes. He didn't know. Every holiday we have now is definitely a reminder of how great it is to just have that.

Julie: 33:12 What a gift. That's a good reminder for us all actually. I know you've turned this into a book, and we'll talk about that, but you've also created so much, I mean, in addition to your TED Talks. I can imagine given that this, your whole medical history, even though that's not necessarily the creative part, you've turned your... I've heard on Robin Roberts on Good Morning America... I watch this every morning. It's one of my things. But she always talks about making your mess your message and you have-

Amy: 33:40 Oh, yeah. Love that.

Julie: 33:41 ... done that so clearly with your book. You're doing that with so many of your other artistic outlets, but you're also sharing it... I know you do a lot of speaking you said, and I can imagine that not only for companies to hear, have somebody like you come and speak and how inspiring it is and "you think you've got a bad, look at this, and look what she's been able to do despite these things," but at medical conferences and things as well given that you're a medical marvel, frankly, and being able to see you up there, not just alive, but as I say, thriving, do you enjoy sharing... I mean, I know you're sitting here with me, but do you enjoy sharing this and trying to use this as something that's maybe a teachable moment.

Amy: 34:24 Yeah, I do. It's funny. I talk about my story so much now that people don't realize that for years, for at least 10 years, I didn't even have the words for my story, but actually coming to the point where I could tell it, that was actually a very transformational process for me, so now whoever I speak to... You hear about so much with companies how like storytelling is great for your business or how it helps your life. I really experienced that firsthand how I don't really feel like I found the message behind what I had been through and could really feel comfortable with my story until I was able to find a way to put it into words and frame it as a story. That process of forming those words took a lot of time. That was what was so healing for me.

I love being able to talk to all different kinds of people, whether they're college students or kids or CEOs or surgeons, for anyone in their own life and who they take care of and what they do, why what they've experienced in their life and being able to put that into words is really something that can not get them caught in what's happened to them, but really catapult them forward if they use it in the right way.

Julie: 35:48 Yeah, that's amazing. Well, you've done this, so you've obviously now been able to, in addition to just speaking at all these conferences and TEDs, of course, but you've written your book, touring with that. But in addition, and I want to reiterate that in case people want to go and get even a deeper story of yours at the end of the podcast here, but share with us a little bit about some of the other pieces of art you're creating, so theatrically and otherwise.

Amy: 36:15 Again, it took a while for me to put my story into words. First, before I could even get any words in, I discovered art, which I talk about in my book a lot, which was a total accident in the hospital. But why visual art was so important for me is it was my first way of getting out my emotions that I could really understand them without being able to articulate them so that, I'm selling myself on a bunch of stuff like that, but I'm also leading a lot of workshops for people that aren't creative because I think art is the coolest vehicle to get us to words.

Then putting my story together on stage, my one-woman musical, Gutless and Grateful, that was my first way of putting the events of my story together in a theatrical arc that could show me the message behind what I had been through and also that people could relate to this arc of going through a detour in their life. That really seems to inspire people no matter what they've been through. I've toured that to theaters, to colleges, to conferences. That's always really great to know that people can relate to my story from all walks of life.

Then eventually, I finally put this book together, which really shows why I'm proud of this and why it shows something unique that none of my other stuff has done is it gets the perspectives from my family and from doctors and really from my beginnings and all of the falls I made and the fails and the triumphs. I wanted people to see that it wasn't such a clear trajectory, and that resilience was really a learned skill that anyone can cultivate.

Julie: 38:06 Well, Amy, yes, you inspire me hearing your story, just what you've gone through, but I think it's a huge testament not just you, but the support you talked about and having them to be there with you, but also, this outlet that you've had. It all makes sense. There was a reason that you had this art, and you're now able to take that and do something with it that isn't just an expression, but it's really powerful and meaningful. I think in addition to adding something beautiful to the world, it's going to help so many people.

Amy: 38:42 Well, if I can say-

Julie: 38:43 Yes.

Amy: 38:43 ... one thing, having the support, my family, the creative community was great, but I think for anyone, we need to find that support in any ways we can. The reason why creativity is such a cool thing for anyone is there are writings now that show that the original Greek plays of Sophocles, those were originally plays meant for military veterans to actually reenact their story for each other and for the community to show, "You know what, this is what we went through.

It's been proven over and over since the beginning of time that we need those communal ceremonies to make sense of what we've been through and to share it. I'd say to anyone find some way that you can be part of a larger group where you can express your story and share it outward. It was theater for me, but it could be a lot of things for a lot of people.

Julie: 39:36 Well, it's theater, but it's, thankfully for those people who might not be able to get to see your play, your one-woman amazing show, is that they could go out and Amazon or any of the book platforms, get your book.

Amy: 39:36 Read the book.

Julie: 39:49 I'm going to reiterate. It's My Beautiful Detour: An Unthinkable Journey From Gutless to Grateful. Amy Oestreicher-

Amy: 39:56 Thank you.

Julie: 39:57 ... thank you so much for sharing-

Amy: 39:57 Thank you.

Julie: 39:58 ... your story.