Michael Reinert, lawyer, actor, music lover, philanthropist, survivor. He's represented radio and music recording artists, was the first on the jukebox scene, and he also bravely fights multiple myeloma cancer. He turned his story into two plays and gives all proceeds to the mmrf.org to fight this rare disease that he shares with people like Tom Brokaw. Listen and be inspired.

Transcript:

Juile (00:00):

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Conversational. My name is Julie Roehm, and today I have the pleasure of hosting Michael Reinert. So Michael is an attorney at law. He's actually a partner at Fox Rothschild. So before you think to yourself, oh my God, she's interviewing an attorney, that could be crazy, you are going to be so impressed by his background and the kind of attorney he is. It is the most amazing story. So a little introduction for Michael before we started talking, he began his career in the music business in New Orleans as a radio personality, so already that's exciting. And as they say, I've seen him and he's got more than just a face for radio. I can tell you that. But he was a radio personality and a programmer and manager of local bands down in New Orleans.

Juile (00:47):

And since then, he has represented platinum selling artists while serving as legal counsel to some of the world's largest and most legendary record companies. And before he did this, he served 13 years as the executive vice president of business and legal affairs at the Universal Motown Republic Group, which is a vision of UMG Recordings. Before that, Michael was the VP of business and legal affairs for Polygram Records and he handled duties for the legendary Verve Records label, Mercury Nashville Records, as well as for London Records. He started in the legal business at the firm of Mayer, Katz, Baker, Leibowitz And Roberts, where he focused solely on work for Atlantic and Electra Records. So I have no doubt that he has been in some super cool company. Before the record industry, he was the VP of licensing and programming for the Rowe International Corporation, which was the world's largest jukebox manufacturer of all times.

Juile (01:43):

I'm going to ask you about that time. I'm going to actually have to ask him about whether or not you have a jukebox in your home because what a cool thing to have. So he was responsible for the development of the first video jukeboxes in the United States, not only as the head of all programming, but he actually helped develop and draft some of the earliest licenses for the commercial and exploration of music videos. He served as an adjunct professor of law at his alma mater, the Benjamin Cardozo School of Law, for 10 years. He sits on the board of directors for Myeloma Research Foundation and was honored with their courage and commitment award at their 2010 gala event. He's on other boards as well, but this is kind of the new kind of twist to the story. In addition, he has written and performed two, one-man Off Broadway shows talking about his experience as a cancer patient.

Juile (02:32):

So Tell Me What Can I Do was produced by the Naked Angels theater company and was performed at the Playwrights Horizons theater on Theater Row. So Tell Me How Are You Because You Look Great, was produced by Jay and Cindy Gutterman and was performed at Theatre 80 St. Marks theater in Greenwich Village. Both shows were directed by Joel Daniel. All proceeds went to benefit the MMRF. So in addition to having an epic history of representing legally, some of the really cool radio and music recording artists of our time, being the first on the jukebox scene, which is so cool, he also braves cancer, which he still fights to this day and went on and created his own theater. I don't know, but I would just do a mic drop, Michael, because that is one heck of a bio. Welcome.

Michael (03:24):

Well, thank you. I appreciate that, Julie.

Juile (03:27):

Welcome. Welcome. This is super exciting. So I just am so curious. Where were you born? What did your parents do? Because I'm just wondering if there's any music in that that kind of spurred you on.

Michael (03:39):

Well, I was born in New York City, Mount Sinai Hospital up on Fifth Avenue. But I grew up in Teaneck, New Jersey, right across the George Washington Bridge. The funny thing is though, my parents always pretty much told people wherever we went, that they were from New York. They were originally from Brooklyn and moved to Jersey back in the mid fifties. My father worked on Wall Street, he was a stock broker, and my mother, this was long before there were shopping malls, my mother would go shopping all the time in the city. This was pretty much their existence. It was a quick four mile hop over the GW Bridge. And in fact, eventually I started going to junior high school and high school in the city at Horace Mann. So by the time I was 12 years old, I was commuting to the city every day. So we were suburban people living in Teaneck, but very, very tied to New York.

Juile (04:36):

Wow. So your dad was a stock broker and your mom was a professional shopper?

Michael (04:41):

Basically, my mom was a housewife. The truth is, we used to lovingly refer to her as Saint Marilyn because she was just the most wonderful woman in the world and everybody just gravitated to her, and she just took care of everybody. So she was that kind of a very caring, loving person. The two of them really raised us in a home to believe about giving back. My parents were always very involved in a lot of causes, especially Jewish philanthropies. And I think that one thing I'm so proud of is they were the first couple in the United States to received something called the Levi Eshkol Award. If you don't know, he was the prime minister of Israel and there was an award given every year to a leading member of the Jewish community for philanthropy and furthering the causes of Israel. And my parents were the first married couple to ever received that award back in, I believe 1966.

Juile (05:38):

[inaudible 00:05:42].

Michael (05:43):

They were very humble people and they were very dedicated to their family and that's how we were raised. So that's the feelings that I got.

Juile (05:52):

Amazing. Did you have brothers and sisters?

Michael (05:54):

I have one sister, an older sister. Still lives in Teaneck, still there. And her daughter still lives in Teaneck and her grandchildren are in Teaneck. So there's still a lot of [crosstalk 00:06:05] Teaneck.

Juile (06:06):

So nobody's strayed very far.

Michael (06:08):

They stayed. I left in 1975 and never looked back.

Juile (06:14):

Well, but now you're back.

Michael (06:16):

When I say I never, I mean, I left to go to college in '75. I moved to New Orleans and went to Tulane. And when I came back from Tulane, I moved immediately into the city to go to law school. So [crosstalk 00:06:29] back to Jersey.

Juile (06:33):

And I guess I'm curious as to where sort of law and music entered your life and kind of informed what you ended up doing with your life.

Michael (06:40):

It's a funny story because yes, music has always been my great passion, but my other great passion is theater, as was evidenced by the shows that I did later in my life. But I was a senior in high school and I was applying to colleges and my dad said to me, "Where are you applying?" And I said, "Well, I'm thinking Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern, NYU, long shot, maybe Yale." He goes, "That's great. And what do you want to study?" I said, "Well, I really want to study theater arts and directing. That's what I want to do. Maybe writing." He said, "Ow, that's fantastic. So tell me, who's going to be paying for your education?" He says to me, "Far be it from me to tell you what to do with your life, you can be any kind of lawyer you want." So I mean, it was kind of a situation where it was a little bit preordained, but then when I finished college, I had spent most of my years in New Orleans very involved in the music business.

Michael (07:44):

One thing you'll learn about virtually every music lawyer is we're all frustrated musicians, we just weren't good enough. So I learned that pretty early on, and that's when I got very involved in radio and managing bands. And I was very excited to continue that career and I was about to graduate college and all I wanted to do was stay in the business. And I had a cousin, it's actually my mom's first cousin who lived in Fall River, Massachusetts. And the guy had basically come up with an idea back in the 1960s to pipe music into the factories of Fall River. And this led to a little record store and that led to record distribution system, which grew into something called United States Record Corporation and it was the largest rack jobber of records in the country. The man wouldn't know a hit record if it bit him on the ass, but he had every record company coming to him because he sold more records than anybody.

Michael (08:45):

Plus he dabbled a little bit in management. So I wanted to stay in the business, my parents wanted me to go to law school. My mother goes, "Go see cousin Danny." So I schlep up to Fall River, Massachusetts. I go, "Danny, I've spent the last four years in New Orleans, I've really gotten to know the business. I got the opportunity to work for a label as a local radio rep." He turns to me, he goes, "Michael, do you know who Walter Yetnikoff is?" I said, "Sure." He goes, "Do you know who Clive Davis is?" I said, "Of course." He goes, "Do you know who Dick Asher is?" I said, "What's your point?" He goes, "They're all lawyers. Don't be a schmuck. Go to law school and you're going to always make a living."

Juile (09:23):

Oh my gosh. I didn't know that they were all lawyers.

Michael (09:27):

Oh, yeah.

Juile (09:28):

Oh, I had no idea. Clive Davis was a lawyer? I mean, it makes perfect sense, but-

Michael (09:33):

By the way, so were all of his children.

Juile (09:35):

Well, because they're not stupid, right? Look at what dad did. I mean, okay. I get it.

Michael (09:41):

So that's how I became an entertainment lawyer.

Juile (09:44):

Interesting. So let me back up, because the jukebox story, did you do that while you were going to law school or right when you came out?

Michael (09:55):

No, no. So when I came out of law school, I was very determined to get a job in the entertainment or specifically the music business. And I said, I'd rather drive a cab than go practice regular law. So I went to work for a little downtown firm. I won't even tell you the name because they don't exist anymore. But there was one partner there who was doing music work. And I got a referral, I went there for an interview. It was supposed to be a 10 minute informational interview, it wound up three hours. He hired me. I was literally making less money than the assistants on staff. I mean, I was working for nothing. But for me, it was the opportunity to be working with artists at the time like David Bromberg, Bobby McFerrin... I'm trying to think some of the others that we dealt with. John Cafferty, the Beaver Brown Band.

Michael (10:48):

The first project I ever worked on was the movie soundtrack for Eddie and the Cruisers. So it was really a wonderful experience. And then the jukebox thing came along because somebody said to me that there was this jukebox company in New Jersey called Rowe International and they were at the time, the largest jukebox manufacturer in the world. But they had come up with the technology for a video jukebox. Problem is in the jukebox world, when you're an operator of jukebox, you just go to your local one-stop, pick out the records you want and put them in your machine. Obviously, you could not do that with videos. So for the first time as manufacturers, they had to supply their customers with the software and content to show the videos. They needed somebody to make them, they needed somebody to license them, they needed somebody to program them.

Michael (11:37):

So I had both a legal background and a programming background from radio, seemed like an interesting fit. And they let me call the shots. They were in New Jersey, but I insisted on having my own office in New York. I spent about 10 days every month in the studio editing video reels. I spent the rest of my time basically meeting with every record company and publishing company I could, trying to get the necessary licenses.

Juile (12:02):

Wow.

Michael (12:02):

You get the necessary licenses.

Juile (12:02):

Wow, it's an amazing story, but I was going to go back a little bit where you were saying that you were working on the soundtracks for Eddie and the Cruisers, I mean, you're speaking my language, I love that. I'm just curious as do you ever... It's not necessarily your holy shit moment, unless there was something impacting you, but are there any good stories from any of your interactions with any of those soundtracks and movies? Just it was such a different era of music then, than it is now.

Michael (12:33):

I can't really say back then, I was the little [inaudible 00:12:40] in the pond, I was the lowest guy on the totem pole. I wasn't the guy who got to sit in the big meetings. Every once in a while, my boss would take me on his A&R runs, which was fun because I would get to meet people. And it's funny because I still speak to some of the people I met all the way back then in a business and friends capacity. And from the Road Jukebox days I still do business with a lot of people I met back then.

Juile (13:02):

Really?

Michael (13:02):

Yeah, as a guy who was a huge music fan, there were a couple of times as a video programmer I didn't realize the power I had. And so the video promotion people at the record labels would say, "Hey, come to this party." Or, "Come to that thing." Or, "We're going to do a video shoot with so and so." And I started to realize, "Well, I could get to meet some of my heroes." And the first person I got to meet like that was Richie Furay, I don't know if that name means anything to you, but Richie Furay is one of the original founding members of Buffalo Springfield. He was a founding member of Poco and then went on to a very illustrious solo career and another band called Souther-Hillman-Furay, and he was one of my heroes growing up musically.

Michael (13:48):

And I got meet him through this gig, and to this day he's one of my best friends. I mean, he lives in Colorado, we don't see each other as much anymore, but when his kids went to NYU, we were Aunt Karen and Uncle Michael taking care of them and it was a wonderful, cool thing that I remember that first moment I got to meet him. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm meeting Richie Furay." To me it was a big moment.

Juile (14:13):

Well, and those kinds of things are the holy shit moments, right? Those are the things that stick with you and... How did you get then from going to Jukebox into actually practicing law? And I guess I'm wondering for all these different labels that you helped to manage and work with, did the relationships come back into play?

Michael (14:34):

Yeah, well what happened was after about four years of Jukebox company, [inaudible 00:14:40] as a product had its flaws, let's just leave it at that and the supply chain was a real difficulty, we had a real difficult problem. So somebody approached me and said, "Look, there's an opportunity to work with this law firm." It's a unique law firm because at the time, this was in the late 1980s, Atlantic Records did not have a business affairs department, it did not have a legal department. This law firm acted in both of those capacities based on the long relationship the senior partner had with Ahmet Ertegun. So we were literally in the Warner Building, we were in the Atlantic floors, we were right there but they weren't legally a separate entity. And they represented quite a lot of big stars. I mean, I remember also working on INXS, and Billy Idol, and New Kids On The Block when they were first coming out. So the partners of the firm represented some major talent, but the primary clients were Atlantic and Elektra Records, and I immediately gravitated to that work. I had always just had... There was something about working at a record label that really was my dream. So I took the job knowing that I might be able to do that. I got in and immediately volunteered to do whatever I could to work for both Atlantic and Elektra, [inaudible 00:15:57] to know the guy at Elektra pretty well.

Michael (15:59):

And that's where I met the guy who really changed my life, a gentleman named Mel Lewinter, Mel works side by side with Doug Morris who also became... Really the two of them became so important to me because they taught me everything I knew, I know, I should say, about being not only a good lawyer, but by being a good person and being a very respectful business person. They took me under their wing, they really just protected me and yet showed me how to do things the right way and it was the most important experience of my life as a business person. And to this day, I speak to Mel at least once a week. So it was really the most formative part of my career, were those years at [Mayer Katz 00:00:16:46], right out to work for Atlantic and Elektra.

Juile (16:51):

Why would you have ever left? What was it that pulled you away from them?

Michael (16:56):

Well, in the music business there's always dirty laundry and we're not going to air any of that. Let's just say that an opportunity arose for me to take a more senior position as Vice-president. So when the position rose at PolyGram, I went to Mel, I said, "Look, I have this opportunity to go directly to this label in house as vice president." And he turns to me and went, "Go, get you stripes, get some experience, in a few years you'll come back." And I went "No problem." Loved that. What's ironic is that during the time I was at PolyGram, Mel and Doug basically got kicked out of Warner's, famous story, but you can look it up. They then formed their own little record company. That little record company became Universal Records, Edgar Bronfman bought MCA. He changed MCA to Universal, he called Doug Morris and he said, "Will you please come run Universal?"

Michael (18:03):

So here was Doug Morris who had built Warner's music, now he was going to basically one of his former biggest competitors, the former MCA Records now known as Universal Records. And he built it and it became an enormously successful company, and two years later it merged with PolyGram. And I remember I was at the T.J. Martell charity dinner in 1998 and I saw Mel, it was like that scene in West Side Story where they cross across the crowded room and they meet in the middle and I gave him a big hug and he went, "Welcome back, it's just a different address." And he immediately tapped me to become the head of legal and business affairs for what was then known as the Universal Motown Republic Group, which is now basically Republic Records, but I won't go into the whole story of how the two companies merged. So I worked for Mel and Doug and I left to go to PolyGram, was there for four years but then I came back and worked for Mel and Doug for another 13 years after that.

Juile (19:05):

So his prediction was right, just not quite in the way that he thought or you thought, so that's pretty funny that that comes full circle. But it's always [inaudible 00:19:12] these people, right? That kind of, to your point, that stick with you, that inform who you are, but also you guys help propel one another. It is all about the network, which is part of how I started this, right? It's the stories and the people that make you who you are. I'm going to move, move forward a little bit further, tell me what happened and when you first learned, and kind of where you were at the stage of life, career wise and family wise, when you learned about your diagnosis.

Michael (19:47):

Okay, well that was back in 2008. I was executive vice president of business and legal affairs, it was extensively one of the world's largest record companies. My family was just in a beautiful place, we had just welcomed a beautiful new grandson. Life was great, I mean, really could not have been in a better place. And I remember, I kind of had this pain in my back, it felt like I pulled a muscle. And I had this little lump but I just thought it was a knot. And I really tried everything to get rid of it, massage and muscle relaxers and everything. I thought I was just cramping too much, I thought I was just out of shape and [inaudible 00:20:31].

Michael (20:31):

I remember my buddy, Michael and I were at the New Orleans Jazz Festival, and he was giving me a really hard time about how much I was complaining about this pain in my back. And then I got home from New Orleans and I decided I should go see somebody because the pain was getting a little worse. I went to see a doctor, it was a Friday. He was my cardiologist because I thought there was something wrong with my heart, quite frankly, I thought it was my chest. He thought it might have been a pulmonary embolism, and I will tell you that in the 12 plus years I've had this disease, those are the worst 45 minutes of my life, trying to find out whether or not I've had a ticking time bomb in my chest.

Michael (21:10):

I got a cat scan, no pulmonary embolism. I was so just incredibly thrilled, I ran home. And he says, "Yeah, but I want you to come back on Monday because you need to get a PET scan." I went, "Fine, whatever you say, fine. Just as long as I'm not going to die in 45 minutes." I had no idea what a PET scan was and then that night I decided to go online and look, and that was the first time I saw the word cancer.

Michael (21:36):

So the next morning I called him at home and I said to him, "Harvey, do I need to see an oncologist?" And he said to me, "Well, let's see what the PET scan says, but if my hunch is right, yes." I said, "Really? What are you hunching?" He goes, "I think it's this disease called multiple myeloma." And that was May 31st, 2008. I had the PET scan Monday, I had the bone marrow biopsy Tuesday and confirmed the diagnosis by Wednesday. It was quite a shock. I went online, which was the stupidest thing to do, but not lying, basically, I was told I had three to five years to live and I said, "No." So thus began the adventure, thus began the next 12 years of my life.

Juile (22:29):

What is [inaudible 00:22:30] multiple myeloma?

Michael (22:33):

Multiple myeloma is a rare, incurable cancer of the blood. It affects your bones, it affects your immune system, it can affect your kidneys. There are at least 15 known variations of the disease, so that's why there are a number of different severities and different ways it can affect you. The more severely affected patients have chromosomal damage, which can in turn make your bones even more brittle. As I said, there is no cure, but in the last, I would say 12 to 15 years, there have been more advancements in this particular disease than probably any other single cancer. And that's amazing considering that it is still an orphan cancer, meaning that it does not have enough new diagnoses every year to consider a major category of cancers. There is amazing, incredible research being done in this field.

Juile (23:35):

And you do [inaudible 00:23:38] to donate and fund the research in his area from what you... I mean, I'm sure that the 12, 15 years, first of all, you've blown away the three to five year prognosis that you were given, but you've also helped to contribute not only just for your own personal survival, but for that of others as well through your... I know that that that's where you're donating for your [inaudible 00:24:03]...

Juile (24:03):

I know that that's where you're donating for your Broadway plays, but it's an amazing story that you have been able to beat this and continue to fight it so long and so well. I imagine that there have been many up and downs in that period.

Michael (24:18):

You mentioned my parents earlier on, and not only my parents, but my grandparents as well. My grandfather was probably the strongest influence in my life. And, as I said earlier, giving is a very, very important part of the fabric of our lives.

Michael (24:34):

Before I was diagnosed, I was on the board of a number of different charitable organizations, including the T.J. Martell Foundation, which is a very well known leukemia cancer foundation. And was very proud of the fact that, while I was on the board, they were very involved with the development of the Gleevec drug, which is considered a miracle pill. I mean, literally can cure some forms of leukemia.

Michael (25:03):

When I got diagnosed, they were the first people I called because it was sort of an old routine that, whenever anybody got sick, people would call me. I would say, okay. And then, I would call the people at the Martell Foundation and say, okay, I've got a friend, a brother, a cousin, a somebody. They've got this kind of cancer. Who do we go to? And we would put project mode into play. They were the first people I called when I got diagnosed. I said, all right. Who do I want to see? And the doctor there, may he rest in peace, he was a wonderful man, but he gave me the list of names that I wanted to go see. And one of those people was the doctor who has been taking care of me now since the beginning.

Michael (25:41):

But the problem was the Martell Foundation didn't do anything in this area. This was not their field. And I knew that there had to be somebody like Tony Martell who was so dedicated to finding the cure for leukemia. There had to be somebody who had to be there for finding the cure for multiple myeloma. And that person is a woman named Kathy Giusti. She is just a remarkable, remarkable woman. She was 36 years old, a white woman living in Westport, Connecticut. She had an identical twin sister. She was given this diagnosis and was told you have three years to live, get your affairs in order. That was 24 years ago.

Juile (26:25):

Oh my gosh. I live in Westport, Connecticut. Is she still here?

Michael (26:29):

Yes. She decided to found this organization, the Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation, which has not only been so instrumental in developing so many of these drugs that are now available for me as a patient, but she has truly upended the entire concept of fundraising for cancer research. And I don't want to go into a whole MMRF pitch here, but I will give them one plug and say, if you are interested, the website is themmrf.org. It is a unique, incredible organization that has now become the model for so many other cancer charitable foundations.

Michael (27:13):

So, I have been a member of their board now for eight years, nine years. I was responsible for, I guess, seven years in a row, I was the chairman of their gala. And we honored people like Berry Gordy, Clive Davis, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, of course, Tom Brokaw, who was a patient. We had artists like Earth, Wind & Fire, Jennifer Hudson, Michael McDonald, Wynton Marsalis, John Legend, so many more who all came, Paul Simon, Diana Krall. Diana's mother passed away from this disease. They all came up to Connecticut. They all came to Greenwich on a Saturday night and played for us to raise money for this incredible cause. So, it's been a great passion of mine and a great pleasure of mine to be able to contribute to trying to find a cure for this thing.

Juile (28:12):

Well, and clearly your music history and your relationships, I'm sure, helped that out. I mean, this is why I always think it's... life is a funny thing. And, when you just kind of sit back and you can observe it, that's why I enjoy this. Right? I can observe from afar. Seeing all these things that happened to you, I always believe that everything has a meaning and we've got these opportunities and these windows, if we choose to see them. And so, while it was your profession, this has now turned into something that has been lifesaving for you, but probably for others. And I want to be able to cover these Broadway, these one man Broadway shows-

Michael (28:52):

Off Broadway. Off Broadway.

Juile (28:53):

Okay. Off Broadway. Whatever.

Michael (28:54):

It's a big difference.

Juile (28:54):

It's all the same to me. If you're in [inaudible 00:28:57] and you're on or off Broadway, you have made it in my book, Michael. So, you know what? I'm going to counter, okay, off-Broadway one man shows. But just tell me the story of how that happened, how you did it, why you did it, what they're about.

Michael (29:13):

Well, like I said before, the theater has always been my passion. My wife and I, we always say that the reason we live in New York is so that we can go to theater. Let's see, about five years before I got diagnosed, I got introduced to a local theater company called Naked Angels, which has a very interesting program. Every Tuesday night, they would meet in a theater and do cold readings of a scene, ten pages. And you can bring in ten pages of your show and they would literally cast it on the spot. There would be maybe a hundred actors milling around the theater. And they would cast it, hand them the script, and at nine o'clock, everybody sits down in the theater and maybe five or six different scenes would be read. I just loved this. And then, if your show, you could bring down scene, by scene, by scene. And then, if your show got developed, they would do a complete reading of the show once a month called 1st Mondays. And then, eventually, if the show was good enough, it might even get produced.

Michael (30:15):

So, I started going down. And it was kind of ironic because here I am this... and I mean this just from an objective perspective, here I am this big, fancy music executive, making big money, and I have this big fancy title. And I walk into this theater and I'm surrounded by all these actors, and actresses, and writers. And I am in awe of every single one of these people. I'm thinking, what am I doing here? And basically, these people are struggling as bartenders, and waitresses, and taxi drivers, and dog walkers. And I'm thinking I'm just blessed to be in their presence. I can't believe they're letting me in.

Michael (30:52):

So, I started writing things. And I started bringing it down. And I kind of became accepted within the community. And I was working on a play, actually, a play about my family. And it got accepted for a 1st Mondays. They read like seven or eight of the scenes. So, they always take the summer off. I got diagnosed, as I said, May 31st. They told me that I was going to have my reading of my play in September. I called them up. And I said, I'm very sorry. I have to withdraw from the reading because I have a personal problem. I didn't tell them what it was. So, I'm going to share with you the story that is rather personal, but here's how it goes.

Michael (31:35):

My best friend died of cancer 13 years before I got diagnosed. He was my best friend from college. And he died from a brain tumor. There was no chance. They told him he had six months to live and he died six months to the day. But he went out with a bang. He went out with a bang. We partied our brains out every day until the day he died. When I got diagnosed, I had to tell people and I had to informed my friends. And one of my dearest friends is Stevie Wonder. And I had to call Stevie and tell him. We had a very, very, very personal conversation that night.

Michael (32:23):

And I went home the next day. I was sitting in the backyard and I was listening to a song of his called Positivity. It's on his last album. I'd probably have heard that song a hundred times. But, for some reason, that day, I really listened to the words. And I turned to my wife. I said, that's it. This is how we're going to lead our lives, if this is the hand that's been dealt us. No grim faces. No depression. Positivity. We are going to look at the horizon, not our feet, from now. And I thought about my friend Allen.

Michael (32:58):

So, I sat down and I wrote something. I just wrote. Wasn't even supposed to be a scene. I just wrote something about being positive, thinking about positivity, and thinking about my buddy Allen. And I wrote a very funny story about spending Thanksgiving with Allen. So, I sent it to the creative director of Naked Angels. I said, maybe you want to have somebody read this. The first night of this new season, I walked in and he turned to me, he went get up there and read it. I said, I don't do that. I'm a writer. He goes, get up and read it.

Michael (33:32):

So, it was the first scene of the first night of the new season. And I get up. And I probably know half the room. And the first line of the scene is, a lot of things went through my mind when I found out I had cancer. And the whole room just went, [inaudible 00:33:44].

Juile (33:44):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Michael (33:46):

And I read the scene. It's very funny. It's very touching. I got off the stage. He pulled me aside. He said, I've always loved your work, but you found your niche. So, if you keep writing this and you finish it, I'll direct it. So, I was in the middle of my first rounds of chemotherapy. I mean, I think I had had two rounds so far and I had eight more to go. And throughout the entire time I was getting chemo, I kept writing scenes. And, when I was strong enough, I would take them down on Tuesday nights and read them.

Michael (34:15):

And then, finally in early December, they called me and they said, okay, February 2nd, 1st Mondays, you're reading the play. Well, little did they know, three days later I was going on sabbatical to move to Boston to get my STEM cell transplant. So, Monday night, I think it was February 2nd or February 3rd, at Playwrights Horizons, it was supposed to be done script in hand, but by that time I had memorized the thing. And 130 people packed into that theater and we read it. I left three days later to go for my transplant. But I will tell you, it was the most cathartic, most important thing that could have possibly happened as I was about to go off to this unknown thing, this STEM cell transplant. I came back three months later. I'm sitting with my director again. He goes, so what did you write? I said, what do you mean, what did I write? I've been in an isolation room for four weeks. And I've been in... he goes, pardon me, bullshit. There's got to be some great stories. I wrote about another three or four new scenes. And six months later, we opened off Broadway at the Playwrights Horizons Theater.

Juile (35:23):

Wow. And how long did it run?

Michael (35:27):

We only did four nights, four nights of each show. Naked Angels was producing another show called This Wide Night, with Edie Falco and... oh gosh, I can't remember the other actress's name. So, we piggybacked onto them. And we used the theater during that run. So, we did four nights there. And then, about three months later, I did the show again at the Museum for Television and Broadcasting, the Paley Museum. And we did it there and we filmed it there.

Juile (35:58):

Right. So, what was this second one that you talked about? The-

Juile (36:02):

[inaudible 00:36:01] talked about the, so tell me how are you because you look great.

Michael (36:08):

Well, the reason that the first play came about in a way was the title is I had sent out an email to all my friends and family, because everybody wanted to know what's going on. So I did a sort of joking Q&A with everybody, like, "What do you have?" And I would answer the question. The last question in this thing was, "So tell me, what can I do?" Because that was the first question everybody would ask me when I told them that I had cancer. And I even wrote in that email parenthetically, I swear someday, I'm going to write a play and that's going to be the title. And two years later, literally to the day, two years later, I opened off Broadway and that was the title of the play.

Michael (36:49):

So what happened was I did the play, it was a lot of fun. I kept going on with my life and I sort of settled into a normal routine. Now, the funny thing is I don't take normal chemotherapy. I didn't lose my hair. I didn't lose the weight. I didn't turn into a grey ghost. The fact is, and I say this unabashedly because it's what everybody tells me. I look fantastic. I don't look like I'm sick. I look healthy like anything. It's the curse of my existence because everybody comes up to me and goes, "Hey, you look great." What they're not saying is, "Hey, you look great for somebody who's got incurable cancer." So, it's a joke with us in the family now. It's like, I meet people for the first time and maybe an hour after I meet them, they'll find out I have cancer and they get all flustered and they don't know what to say and they don't know what to do. So where did they go? "Well, you look great." As if that's a consolation prize.

Michael (37:58):

So, I turned to my [inaudible 00:38:02]. I said, "Look, I just got to do this one more time. I got to do it again and that's got to be the title." And the second experience though, was just really amazing because the first one you might want to call it sort of a high school production. It was really, I designed the set. I designed everything. The second one, Jay and Cindy Gutterman, the producers, are major Broadway producers. And I remember the first day we were going to have our first table meeting with the entire crew. And my director picked the lighting person, he picked the set, he picked everybody. So I walked into the meeting, it was in my conference room.

Michael (38:37):

There must have been 10 or 11 of us sitting around the table. And I said, "Thank you everybody for coming. I have some great ideas to share with you. Let me show you what I have as ideas for the set. And let me tell you what I have some ideas for the music." And they all had this very uncomfortable look on their face. And Joe Danisi, the director, turns to me, and he pats me on the hand that he goes, "Michael, you're just the fucking talent. So you sit there and we'll let you know when we need you." And that was basically the last thing I had to say about my show.

Michael (39:08):

Then went ahead and designed the absolute most beautiful production. I could never have envisioned anything like this. And it was spectacular. It was a true, true off Broadway quality, a true to Broadway quality, I should say even, type of production. And I'm so eternally grateful to these people who gave me all this time and effort to do this. And we ran a week at St. Mark's Theater and it was great.

Juile (39:37):

And when was that?

Michael (39:40):

That was 2016.

Juile (39:42):

Wow. Okay. So, that's amazing. So now I have to ask one, how are you doing now? Because you're at 12 years and thriving, I hope and-

Michael (39:54):

12 years, one month, 16 days.

Juile (39:54):

Oh, good for you. So what's next?

Michael (40:01):

Health wise?

Juile (40:02):

Well that or maybe plays. Anything?

Michael (40:05):

Well, here's the thing, I joke at the end of the second play. I refer to them as STM1 and STM2. My joke that maybe someday I'll write STM3 and I'll call it So Tell Me, You're Still Here? They were labors of love. They were the right thing at the right time. I don't really see myself doing it again. I think what I'm really working on right now is taking both plays and trying to consolidate them into a book.

Juile (40:33):

Good for you.

Michael (40:33):

What a lot of people have asked me to do is tell the stories, but also share the advice. Again, it's one thing to raise money, but the other thing I've spent a lot of my time and efforts doing is working with newly diagnosed patients and staying with them. And we have this amazing network of patients that we work with.

Michael (40:56):

And the idea is that everybody can show compassion, but nobody can really understand what you're going through except somebody else who's going through it. So I have probably maybe had 20 to 25 different people who've come into my life as patients and tried to share with them my experiences. I'm not a doctor, but I try to explain to them that you don't have to be a doctor to be in control of your life.

Michael (41:26):

Unfortunately, I've lost too many of those people, including my closest friend in the community. I met somebody right after I got diagnosed within a year. I met another guy who he could have been a twin son of a different mother. I mean, we literally went to high school together and didn't even know each other at the time. But we became incredibly, incredibly close. His family, my family, and he passed away in January. So we lose our friends and patients in this community all too often. But nevertheless, just being able to be there for people. I always tell the patients, don't forget, whoever's taking care of you needs to be taken care of as well. So we always make sure that the caregivers are always being given care, too. I always say this has been much harder on my wife than it's been on me.

Juile (42:20):

Yeah. It's an amazing story. And how you're able to give back. I mean, while you're personally fighting this disease and all the things that you've done, I mean, it's such a remarkable life story just in total, without even the cancer element. But taking that in and coupling that in with all of the things that you've done and fighting this disease while helping others and coming full circle in such a beautiful way, I think to how we started with your point about your parents and their passion and kind of their life quest to constantly give back. You've done that obviously out of the spirit of your parents, but just because it is who you are. And giving back when you yourself are going through so much is really, I don't have the words for it. It's just really inspiring. And gosh, I hope that we get some listeners in here who hear this and who help to donate and help you on this quest to create a cure for this crazy, lesser known disease that's out there. So just amazing story. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Michael (43:32):

Thank you. I always do tell people I have a cure. I'm going to grow old and die of something else.

Juile (43:38):

Yes. You know what? Good for you. And looking at you, you do look great. It's true.

Michael (43:45):

I'll tell you a funny story. I have a brother-in-law, my wife's brother, who is a very, very restrained guy. Not big sense of humor. He just very, very quiet guy. And so he came in not too long ago, a few years ago, we were going to have dinner with him. And Karen said, "Richard, listen, one thing, don't tell Michael how good he looks because he really doesn't like hearing it. You don't have to tell him. It's okay. All right?" He said, "Fine." So we're sitting down, we meet at the restaurant, we sit down, we're about to have dinner. He goes, "So Michael," he goes, "You look like shit."

Juile (44:26):

That's great.

Michael (44:26):

I went, "Richard, I love you, man. Thank you."

Juile (44:32):

That's great. That's so great. It's an amazing story. Okay. Well, can we give one more plug to that, is it the MMRF?

Michael (44:39):

Yes. It's Themmrf.org. Very grateful to you for giving us that plug. Please visit if you're a patient, of course, but if you're just interested in learning more about what we do and how we do it. It's not just about multiple myeloma, it's about all cancers. And we want to be there for every type of patient, every type of cancer and try and help them figure out the best way to have a quality of life and hopefully knock wood, find a cure for this thing.

Juile (45:15):

Right. Well, my heartfelt thanks to you for sharing this story, this very personal story.

Michael (45:22):

Thanks to you.

Juile (45:23):

And my best wishes to you and your continued quest for beating this thing and dying old of something totally different.

Michael (45:34):

Yeah.

Juile (45:35):

Good for you. And if you get that book, I hope you'll let me know because I'd love to be able to plug that again for people to be able to pick up and read because it sounds-

Michael (45:44):

Thank you. Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate that. And I really do appreciate the time today. I've enjoyed it so much.

Juile (45:50):

It was my pleasure. Thank you, Michael.