Nada Stirratt, former VP at Meta - Podcast with Julie Roehm

In this episode of The Conversational, the incomparable Nada Stirratt, current badass, philanthropist, friend and media sales icon was formerly VP at Meta, CEO at Verve Group, CRO at Acxiom and MySpace, EVP at MTV just to name a few, shares her immigrant story of overcoming #HoShiMo’s, and never ever taking “no” for an answer. #theconversational #csuitenetwork #csuiteradio

Transcript:

Julie (00:00):

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of The Conversational. My name is Julie Ra and it is my pleasure today to host one of my favorite people, actually, she's kind of a neighbor too, but we have been together for many a year and it is so exciting to finally get her as a guest on the podcast. And I know you're going to love her story as much as you love the person and the human that is not a spirit. So let me give you a little background so you know who we're talking to. For the past six years, NATA was the Vice President Global business group for America's at Meta. So she's led a team of 1500 people, generated over 30 billion in ad revenue. I can't believe that, uh, they would've ever let her leave. But her team managed partnerships with companies of all sizes across Facebook, Insta, messenger, WhatsApp, and Marketplace.

(00:55):

As I was saying to our producer, um, earlier when we started, I said, I have known her for a good 20 years and I think she has always been at the cusp of all things digital and social. And I think I bought advertising as a client, <laugh> from her, from every hot social space. And so you can see those were just a few. But prior to Facebook and Meta, she was the chief Executive officer of Verve Mobile, a venture back, global location based mobile tech platform. And under her leadership, the company more than doubled its revenue, expanded overseas and made two strategic acquisitions while raising over the 30 million. Crazy. She joined Verve from Axiom, where she serves a, served as the company's first chief revenue officer and led a team of responsible for the company sales ops, consulting and analytics practices across the planet. And then before Axiom, she was the chief Revenue officer of MySpace.

(01:50):

Cuz I told you she was there from the beginning. She played an integral role in the social network sales to specific media. In 2011, before joining NewsCorp, she was executive vice president of digital advertising at Viacom. And then she, you know, she was dealing with everything from ops and my favorite was MTV Networks, the digital portfolio there. We, we ran into each other there. And then before joining MTV Networks, she was@advertising.com. Again, see I told you from the very beginning where she had led the successful sale of it to a o l in 2004. How many of you still have a o l emails? I think my parents finally just got rid of theirs. Okay. She ran business development at a o l leading content and marketing deals for the AOL Women's Channel. If I didn't mention it, she's a big champion of women. She joined AOL from movie phone.

(02:37):

Um, I did ask if she ever wanted to be that like voice. Did you ever, for those of you old enough to remember, do you ever listen to the movie phone? She was s v p of advertising upon the company's sale to a o l in 1999. And then today she's busy as ever serving, uh, as a board of director for Blue Star Families, which is a 5 0 1 C three that supports US military families during the difficult time of deployment. She has been named a cable world's most powerful women, da business insiders, most powerful women mobile, and was awarded the Ad Tech Industry's Achievement Award. So she, um, as I mentioned, is a neighbor of mine. So she lives in New Canaan and, um, is happily married for I think almost 30 years. Nada to Avery. Yes.

Nada (03:20):

Yes. We just had our 30th anniversary last week.

Julie (03:22):

Yeah, congratulations. Happy anniversary. And Avery for, he's another, he's another icon all on his own. So it is a powerhouse couple and just couldn't be more nice or down to earth. So, so excited to have you here. Nada.

Nada (03:36):

Well, thank you so much for, I'm, I'm just so honored that you asked me to do this and this is, this is amazing. And uh, it's, when you read my bio, the first thing that comes to my mind is like, holy smokes, I'm turning 58 tomorrow. And boy, that bio reads like somebody like, wow, I sound old. But anyway, I'm just so flattered to be here, so thank you. Oh my God.

Julie (03:56):

Okay, well, awesome. So just for everybody's, everybody's recollect, today is June 26th, we're recording this probably won't get released until later this week. So June 7th, mark your calendar. Send Not a happy birthday, <laugh>. Exciting. That's awesome. Congratulations. Well, I've been married, let's see, this is what happens 28 years this year. I was like, right, one year, 28 years. So I'm right behind you on the, uh,

Nada (04:20):

That's so, no, that's like the nicest accomplishment. Like when you think about all, even, you know, reading all the, and, and when I read your bio, it's the exact same thing. You're like, holy smokes. You were at, at a pivotal moment in so many different parts of so many different parts of the industry. And then it's like when you think about the one thing that grounds you and it's boy oh boy, picking that right partner. It is right. It, it's unbelievable, um, how much we rely on having a rock bias. And so I'm incredibly grateful.

Julie (04:49):

It's so much true. And, and I look, I think that's, you know, we hear and see things and you and I have been around the block a lot and we have chosen a profession. Well, both of us, you know, kind of in, in sort of the same ecosystem of marketing advertising that was so male dominated, um, for so long. And, you know, we've been in the game for almost 30 years, prob right around the time we were both, you know, getting married. And it, I think people don't necessarily understand while, you know, men who were in our positions were like, oh, it's important. I had this great wife at home, or partner and they raised the kids and whatever. I, I just think it was more important, to your point, for us as women to have these, these stable rocks Yeah. Could move with us as we were trying to forge a path that was really, you know, still a little bumpy.

(05:39):

Certainly there were people who were before us who helped cleared up, but it was still pretty bumpy. And I, I'm with you. I think, I think it's underestimated how important those partners are mm-hmm. <affirmative> to help us, uh, through Okay, so, um, kind of like, let's talk about family love that I love to start, um, with because you know, you listen to bios like yours and I think, you know, I, I do this cuz I want the average listener to be like, wow, you know, if, if, if she can do it, I can do it. And I, I don't say that like, oh, like, you know, just anybody. But because I think, I fear that most people tend to think that, you know, successful people somehow did everything right or had everything turn out right for them, that they didn't have crazy obstacles in their way. And I, I know that it's just the opposite that successful people had sometimes bigger obstacles and it's what they chose to do and how they chose to perceive those as a way to get them through. And so I like to start with childhood cause I just think it forms, it forms that attitude really. And so tell us about like, where were you born, what did your parents do? Did you have siblings? So tell us a little bit about that.

Nada (06:47):

Yeah, well, and it, it's a, it's a, but here's what's so interesting and it's not until you're older, like in my twenties, I would've never had this answer. Maybe not even in my thirties, but I think one of the most defining things of my life and that I appreciate so much and that has shaped me more than anything is that I am first generation daughter of immigrants. Wow. My parents escaped the former Yugoslavia during World War ii. My mom was two, my dad was 14. And to make a really long story short, they um, separately spent many years in displaced persons camps. And then my mom's family made it to Canada. My father, um, was rescued by the US military and um, ultimately was in Munich, Germany, started school there and then got passage to come to the US. And so my mom's in Canada, my dad's in the US And, and I'll tell you what, what, so, so first of all it means that a couple things.

(07:45):

Number one is gratitude supersedes everything because both of them, um, my mom less so cuz she was much younger. But you know, my dad coming and the reason why he came to this country is he was a German speaker. He also spoke French and Italian. And of course Serbian, which is what I am, didn't speak a lick of English. And so the minute you get off the boat, literally off the boat, they heard you like cattle into languages. And um, his first job was up in Buffalo, New York. And this is January 30th, um, 1950. And his first job is to go be a janitor to clean the drums out of this tiny little chemical distributing company that a man who was German and didn't speak English needed help. Now why I, uh, I was born in Cleveland and I was raised in Chicago and I was raised, you know, in a, in a, a really comfortable environment because my dad, um, started as a janitor and by the time he retired, 42 years later, he was the chief operating officer of what was then the largest chemical distributing company in North America. Sold it to a Dutch conglomerate. But he worked so hard and kept getting promoted. And I was born in Cleveland and then headquarters was in Chicago. And, and i, I, so it was, he was always incredibly inspiring to me, but it was just about hard work and hustle and um, you know, learning the language and just, you know, being able to, um, to make a big difference on the business side. And so that was always incredibly inspiring to me and it, it really shaped me

Julie (09:18):

And being grateful. I mean, I can see that's where you get your, just your positive, hardworking, gracious attitude is clearly from Yeah. That and because I, I have other friends who are first generation, you know, immigrants, they're the, they've come over and you know, they're, it's the same thing. It's this hard work, but this gratitude for being able to escape some type of, you know, horrific oppression. So, you know, I What did, so kind of going back, you said your, your dad, your dad was 14, your mom was two. Yeah. And they came over and your dad, your dad ended up in Canada and your mom was in the US or My

Nada (09:53):

Mom was in, my mom was in Canada.

Julie (09:55):

Your dad was here. Um, and how did they meet then?

Nada (09:58):

They met at a Serbian function in Niagara Falls, New York. Uh, and on the Canadian side. And, um, and, and you know, and that's actually, that's probably the other thing is when you are first generation, um, you kind of straddle both worlds pretty well. And so everything that we did, um, like, so during the week it's, uh, it's work and school and all the activities and all that kind of stuff. And then on the weekends we did all kinds of Serbian things. I went to Serbian school on Fridays. On Saturdays there's always a dance somewhere because, uh, uh, especially Chicago, I think there's 12 or 13 Serbian churches. And so it was very much, um, uh, part of your social, uh, life and then of course church on Sunday and things like that. And, and it was good and bad cuz there were sometimes when you had just wanna have a normal childhood and like everybody's going and like, and it's like, oh, I can't make it. I'm going to Serbian school to learn the solic alphabet that is never gonna help me ever, ever, ever. And, um, but it's one of those things that now I'm incredibly proud.

Julie (10:58):

So is it, do you relate then to like, when you see my big fra Fat Greek wedding, it like, oh my God.

Nada (11:04):

Yeah. Lived it, lived it, lived it. Well it's, um, no, it is absolutely that and it's, um, and you, you struggle with a full assimilation, but also the desire to have an interest in a, in a footprint, in a different culture as well. And so again, when you're a kid, all you care about is assimilation. Like I, I have a funny name and all that kind. It's like all I wanted to do, call me Julie. If you could have called me Julie after my formative years, I'd be so much better. Oh my gosh. So <laugh>. Um, but yet, and then now I, uh, I lean on it far more heavily. And actually in my last job at Meta was the executive sponsor of refugees at, and we had formed a little organization because, um, at a company where you have a, such a global footprint and you have the benefit and the beauty of two, two and a half billion, maybe 3 billion people a day coming to your platform, we were able to do some pretty remarkable work for refugees all over the world. And we started out as an organization of just 30 of us and there was almost 4,000 people when I left. And so that's, that's nice to put the power of something like that to do good where refugee crises are just a way of life, unfortunately in this world.

Julie (12:15):

Yeah. I I love that you, you kind of took your own personal experience and you've leveraged it to try to take that empathy that you have, right. For, for people who aren't as mm-hmm. <affirmative> social education, but maybe not, maybe without the same benefit of the kind of parents that you had and the kind of opportunities that came through their hard work and, and effort. When you think back to childhood, and by the way, did you have siblings?

Nada (12:38):

I have one brother a year older. Um, and he went on to have a really great career with the US State Department, but all like in former Soviet Union and, um, primarily in the former Soviet Union Republics, and then a little bit in the former Yugoslavia. So yeah, he's retired now.

Julie (12:55):

That's okay. So that's me. So you had the two of you. So do you think back, was there anything pivotal that you think was really outside of, of course, just knowing who your parents were and what they had to do and sort of their stories, but in terms of your experience, whether it was in Chicago, in in some of the Serbian schools, was there, was there any moment that you think back, you know, and I always say just what's the first thing that comes into mind when you think about a childhood experience mm-hmm. <affirmative> that you think formed you or in, or influenced you in terms of Yeah. And say whether it's work or otherwise.

Nada (13:26):

And I think, um, education, um, especially it's like, you know, again, it's that immigrant, you know, education above anything, education and this love of learning. And so I, when I started high school, I also started taking classes at the school of the Art Institute of Chicago mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and because it's like, my parents were always like, let's find, let's find what, what nurtures you? What gives you energy or a talent and let's get you, um, you know, studying or training in that area. And that was just, and I would say that was, that has stuck with me forever. Whenever I, um, have a break I go to school. Yeah. Um, and, and I think that was one of those things that just started really, really early and is has been an influence for, you know, 58 years at this point.

Julie (14:12):

It's, so, I, I, you know, I love to do this. Like, you know, I, this is my only chance to play, you know, therapist, but not that you need therapy <laugh> like, know, connecting guts, but it's the idea of like, okay, now it's, so many things make sense. You know, you think about the, the pioneering really that you did through your career in these, what people would've seen as very risky, I think companies to join or risky, risky moves to take. And for you, part of it was probably, it felt less risky because for you it was just educational. Like, I, you just wanted to learn this is the new thing you wanna, and so it makes so much sense that it, it it's very, it's very telling. Um, and I know about your like, interior decorating love too. So I mean, all these things are coming together for me now. So, um, so as you think about then the choices you made about your education when you had the choice to make them on your own and going to, to school and you know, to college and then to the, your first job. When, when did you get a sense that you, this is what you wanted to do, like that you kind of were in this advertising or sales mode?

Nada (15:16):

Yeah. Uh, pretty early on. Like, so I thought like all immigrant kids, I was gonna go be a doctor, I was good in math, I was good in science. And so of course you're gonna go be a doctor. And um, so I went to University of Illinois because of, um, number one, it was a state school. Number two, my brother was there, number three, it's a good school for anything related to math and science. That's right. And um, I got there, worked my ass off, studied so hard and got my first fee. And so that told me, I'm like, how average can you be? Right? Like everything's created on the curve. And I was like, but I worked so hard. Like there's something that's not clicking for me. And um, and this, this is a testament to my parents too. It's like you just, I mean, you're so good at art and you love that and da da da da. And so it, to make a long story short, I switched into advertising my second year and then, um, weasel my way into a couple of internships and things. And then, um, ended up with my first job outta college. I knew I wanted to be in New York City. My, um, godparents lived in the village. My aunt lived on Central Park West and my mom's best friend lived on the Upper East Side. And in those days people express Airways Airlines was um, $35. Wow. One way to New York.

Julie (16:29):

New York Oh my god.

Nada (16:30):

Yeah. From between Chicago and New York. And so I just wanted to work in a Madison Avenue ad agency cuz I just wanted to be there. And I, um, so to get my job, I started, um, this was the days, obviously there's, there's, I got adage ad week, brand week media, yes. Week, all those delivered. And I would write a letter to everybody there and telling them no to come talk to me. And, you know, nobody responds, but you, the, you know, every day you're doing that. And so I finally just went every single Thursday starting in September of my senior year and I would stand in the lobby and ask the, the security guy who wasn't really security, like, you just didn't have that then. Right. And I'd be like, can you show me when somebody from HR comes in? And so I would walk up to them in a lobby, can you imagine you'd be arrested today?

(17:16):

And I'd be like, hi, my name is Nada svi and I'm an a student from University of Illinois and I'm eager to make a difference on the general foods account. Like it was like I was such a dork and I Oh my God, that's awesome. Did that I love, I did that religiously. And then, um, and ultimately ended up with some pretty compelling job offers as a first, you know, before I even graduated and, uh, ended up in gray advertising because of the packaged goods. Uh, post Natural Raisin brand was my first account. <laugh>. Oh

Julie (17:46):

My God, that is so great. And did you love it? Was it, were you like the first job? Were you immediately like, oh my God, this is, this is who I am.

Nada (17:54):

I learned a lot. I loved the whole process. I love that. I, um, what I wanted though was to be in sales cuz I just, I just loved being in sales and all the people that would call on me that were in, on the sales side. So two years later I decided I really wanna pursue a sales career, a sales job or three maybe more. Yeah. Um, and I, I, similarly to how I got my job at Gray, I only wanted to work at Cosmo and I call Cosmopolitan Magazine thinking I've got some cloud cuz we probably have like a 20 million budget. And, um, and the manager said, no, go get a job at like if you like art, go to art today or go get a job at nursing today. Like you've gotta go to these B2B rags, pound the pavement, earn your keeps, and then come and then we'll talk again in a couple years.

(18:42):

And, um, so instead I went to uh, the New York Public Library on Fifth Avenue and I took out every single magazine in the category and I created a little spreadsheet, this is again, before laptops or anything of course. And I counted pages and I categorized them and I sent them a note and I said, I, um, appreciate that you wish I'd had experience, but I just did a quick summary and of all the magazines, these are four accounts that you don't have any, I've looked at the last two months and here's what I would do to bring those in. And so as you can see how low risk I am as opposed to high risk. And um, and so he didn't respond and then I went the next month and I picked on those three again and I'm like, so this is not just a scheduling thing, you're just not doing the right thing to get that business.

(19:27):

And I said, and as a matter of fact, this is now two months and at my, and I was asking for big money, my $30,000 salary I was asking for, I was asking for big bucks. And um, so finally he called me and said, well just come in and have coffee, but you know, we're not gonna hire you cuz you don't have any experience, but you're, you know, you're either gonna be great or you're gonna be a serial killer, but I just wanna meet you. Yeah. And then had a lovely chat with him and he was not convinced. And so then I did it the third time and the third time at this point I'm like at, at some point you have a fiduciary responsibility to bring in revenue cuz that's what you're paid to do. Right. And I don't understand it. So he sent me to the ad director and she was like, you're unbelievable. We legit don't have a job, but like, I really just wanna meet you. And then lo and behold, um, labor Day weekend, somebody left the company and they called me the Tuesday after Labor Day. I didn't go through any formal interview process after that. And they just said, come here and here's your new list and you know, get it, learn stuff. And so that's how I got my job.

Julie (20:28):

Oh my God. That's an awesome story though. I love it. But this is like this perseverance, uh, I mean did you, where did you get that, do you think? Like did that come

Nada (20:37):

From something from my dad? Yeah, your dad? Yeah, only my dad. Like that's, I mean, you had to, in order to, to overcome all the hurdles he had, like, it was just like, it wasn't an ob none of those were obstacles. I was just gonna, you know, my, a good friend of mine, Lisa McCarthy likes to say a no is just a yes waiting to happen. Yes. And so it's like that was a no waiting, you know, a no waiting, um, a yes waiting to happen. And um, and uh, and the best part about Cosmos, I was there for many years. I ran the beauty business and I got a husband out of the deal. That's how I met Aava. Yeah. You met Avery at

Julie (21:08):

Cosmo. I, no, <laugh>. Ok. I love this. All right. Tell us how you met Avery, your love of life husband story. We have to hear.

Nada (21:15):

I know. Well he, um, he sat across from me. He was not my boss. He was, he came on board as a more senior salesperson. And um, and he uh, and in those days, like this is 19 90, 19 89, like you do not have interoffice romances. And so, um, and but

Julie (21:32):

You do take lunch, like drink drinking lunches every day though.

Nada (21:35):

You take lunches. And, but the funny thing is you um, you only time happened to be another colleague with us. We all went to have lunch together, the three of us. And we sat on a wet park bench and came back with green stripes and we're like, thank goodness we had that other person with us. Cuz otherwise that would've been bad. Oh. Um, but no, it's so, so I met Avery and it's interesting cuz he started in April and I'd been there for a while. And to give you an idea, he started in April. We started dating in July. He moved in in November, we got engaged in January. Right. And so like, you just knew, and so then he left the following April, he had to be there for a year. Um, because at that point we know, and he did it more of the, you love it here, I'm going to work. He went to do an interesting other, um, magazine and um, and he goes, and you know, in those days the woman would've had to lead the company.

Julie (22:27):

Right.

Nada (22:28):

Like, we just know it. Like you just know it would've happened. Right. I, um, I also liked that I ran a bigger business than he did and he made two and a half times more money than I did <laugh>.

Julie (22:38):

Oh,

Nada (22:39):

1990. There you go.

Julie (22:42):

I know. Hopefully we're closer, I hope. Yeah. But yeah, but good for Avery. So he went on. Yeah. And then, but it was like, it was, it was pretty quick. Right. I mean, you knew

Nada (22:51):

It was pretty

Julie (22:52):

Quick. You knew he knew and it was like the rest is history. I love that. So when you think about then, because you kind of jumped, did you jump from there? Was that your move? I'm trying to think about your background. Your history. Was that your move into digital yet, or not quite? No, not quite. You still, you had another stint right before?

Nada (23:08):

Yeah, well I went, um, and I spent almost five years at Conde Nast. Yeah. Okay. And it was Allure Magazine and um, and I think that actually influenced me more than I realized because what I loved about Allure is it felt like a startup. Yeah. Um, it was a new magazine. Nobody wanted a new beauty magazine and we had to hustle to get attention and be super, super creative. And even though the New House family had deep pockets, they didn't have that deep a pocket when you were like their fourth beauty book. Yeah. And um, and I love the camaraderie of that. That happens to be the place where, um, I got promoted and learned so much. So I'd been a salesperson and then became an advertising director, which is, um, it's like, you know, you're, you're now running, um, you're reporting to the publisher and you are running advertising sales and, and to get that at age 29 when you know your peers are probably 10 years older was a lot.

(24:04):

And then, uh, or it was a big deal. Certainly for me it was. And um, but it was a lot of learning. And I, I'll I'll give you one piece of, uh, one story that has shaped me. And I, I say this story all the time when I'm talking to, um, people about leadership lessons. And so I, you know, I did what you all do when you get promoted. You go and read every single book. And I don't even remember what it was in those days books, but it was like, how to be a leader. How to do like all the little and habits of the best. All those Yeah. Every, yeah. All of that. And one of them talked about, um, upward feedback. And up until now, like we didn't even have written reviews in those days. Like you knew you were, well if you got, you were doing well, if you had a commission check and if you weren't, you know, whatever.

(24:45):

Um, so I send a note, like I type up a memo cuz it's just paper in those days. And you tell everybody, um, get on my calendar for 30 minutes and I'd like to know one thing that I'm doing really well that's helping. Yes. And three things that you'd like to see me do differently. And so I sent those out, I scheduled all my things and um, and the, and every person comes in like, okay, here's what you're really good at and here are the, here are the three things. And to a person, I'd say goodbye. Thank you so much. I'd hang up, I'd call Avery. I burst into tears, they hate me. I'm horrible. Oh my God, I'm such a loser. I cannot believe I got promoted when they find out they're gonna fire me. And so finally Jennifer Cole, who went on to have a no a fantastic career in publishing, she sat me down and she goes, okay look, let me tell it to you straight.

(25:34):

And um, she was like, you know, this is Conde Nass and our nickname for her was always Colombo. She danced to her own Dr. She like, she wasn't fancy, she was just like hard knocks and just brilliant. And she said, let me tell it to you straight. Couple things. Number one, if you think I need to be, uh, all of us need to be mini versions of you to be successful here, you'll fail. The magazine will fail. Your only job now is our boss. We didn't even call 'em managers then. You are the boss, as our boss is to get the very best version of all of us out of us. Do you understand? Like, let's be really, really, really clear. I'm never gonna be you, but make me a better me and you're gonna be wildly successful. And let me tell you something, don't ever say one good thing and three bad things.

(26:22):

You say three good things and one bad thing. Like what are you like a masochist? Like that's ridiculous. And I love, like, and whenever I tell that story, I've even told the story in front of her like at ad week and stages and stuff and she's like, oh, I, I hear grown in the audience cuz but it was the most incredible lesson to get at age 29 cuz I of would've wanted everybody to be like me cuz I got the promotion Right. And um, it would've been so awful. And it was a really good learning lesson

Julie (26:51):

And such a and uh, I mean I believe that that part of it was good too. The other part is setting yourself up to hear the things that you don't wanna hear. Right? Yeah. Like you just, you don't, you wanna think like, there's nothing to change. I got it, I'm perfect. You know, <laugh> and you know that that's not true, but it's very hard. It takes a lot of courage.

Nada (27:09):

It was so hard. It was so hard. Oh

Julie (27:11):

My God. It takes so much courage, <laugh> especially like when you're forging your way and you feel like people will use it against you. Which so comfort. We, you know, especially, I don't know there was, you know, I know in my experience, and I'm curious about yours, but you know, now I feel like women are much better at supporting each other. But there was a window there I would say in the nineties where, you know, look, I was in automotive, you were in sales. There was a lot of of male domination and the women then who were there where I felt like we should be supporting each other sometimes. Yeah. It was just the opposite because it felt like there was only room for one woman because they were never gonna let That's right. Them that in, you know, so hundred percent you went into that and how did you deal with that?

Nada (27:52):

Yeah, but it's, um, and I, I'll never forget this was at, at um, uh, I think it was like gray or whatever we call them Babs for your basic advertising bees. Yeah. Um, because they were just everywhere. And, um, and I, and I'm gonna, this is gonna sound like a sweeping generalization and it is, and it was worse. Now it's much better. Um, they were women who were 10 years older than us and had had to go through so much more. Right. And nobody, nobody wanted you to have it easier than they did where now, which is just such a beautiful way to think about it. You want everybody to learn from your past struggles because the, everybody does better if everybody else can be, if people can be doing their absolute best work sooner, the company, everything does better. And I think it took a while.

(28:42):

It took a while and I would say it was, and that was especially going through advertising and publishing, I would say it was very different when I got into the technology space because it was, um, there were just no other women. And so it was, um, and men just didn't have that. Like men had, you know, they threw their retire spikes for other things, but um, it wasn't a gender thing. And so I think that I was spared a lot of like, growth in my, you know, issues in my career because I went into a very male dominated field pretty quickly.

Julie (29:15):

Yeah. So I, so you know, cuz we'll just fast forward, I mean, we could spend forever on all of your pieces. <laugh>, if you think about kind of from your advertising.com to being CEO of Verve and, and then all the way through to meta. I mean, I know you had many steps in between. When you think about, you know, again, kind of thinking about those holy shit moments where it was like, ugh, like, you know, that you had to, you had to like either dig deep and say, I'm gonna see this as an opportunity, or I'm just gonna go back to sales in beauty and fashion, you know, instead of this tech. What kind of, what, what were the, what are the like lessons or your sort of big, you know, call it aha moments or holy shit moments for you?

Nada (29:54):

Well, my aha or my biggest lesson though is, um, being comfortable going someplace where you don't, you're not an engineer, you don't know the technology, you don't need the product, know the product. And um, and again, learning lessons from Allure and a lot of lessons on the movie phone side cuz it was both advertising, but it was also the technology that uh, um, and launching your first startup, I'm sorry, first website. Um, the, you have to be comfortable being a student and going to the most junior person in the, in the company and saying, I need two hours of your time and then doing everything you can to learn about the product and, and, um, the first time you feel like an idiot. And then like, I mean, I sat with our data entry people at movie phone. You're, you know, you'd get the newspaper and enter movie showtimes and ticketing information.

(30:42):

Um, because until you know that you really, you don't know the company. And so, but that was the first place that I did that. Like when I was in magazines, I never went to see a printing press. But you needed to do that in the technology side. Yeah. And I think the same thing@advertising.com, especially when I was running the supply side as well as the demand side, I had to spend so much time with delivery people, the people who ran delivery and um, the data scientists to figure out how, how does this work that there's an advantage so that people would buy into it. And I think Axiom was probably my biggest learning curve for that because I ran the analytics and delivery team and that's probably about 2000 people. They were all engineers. I'm not. And um, and I would say my first month and a half at that company, I just stayed in there. It's a, a campus in Conway, Arkansas to just really understand how do, how does database management work? I have never done that before.

Julie (31:37):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Which can be daunting, right? Because it's like, it can feel like, wow, I, this is, I'm never gonna do this. And how do I, how do you learn enough where you can then be credible not only with, you know, inside with your team, but then with, as a salesperson, right? Yeah. As you to go out and create, create some space. So kind of going through what, you know, which, which of your experiences do you think was your greatest, you know, either humbling learning experience or the one where you questioned yourself the most?

Nada (32:13):

Yeah, I would say my most, um, humbling experience was the CEO at Verve. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and getting fired. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and when I look back, I look and I see so many places where I should have made different decisions. And um, and it's, it's really interesting and I, um, and I, and it's so funny cause I think there's something that you all of us aspire to. Like, oh, I'm gonna a C E O and then I'm gonna sell the company and then it's gonna be fantastic and then I'm gonna build a new one and another one and another one. And, um, and so I, my my first five decisions that were made at Verb, I would say were status quo. The founder was still there, the board had been early day investors. Um, and the company was doing well and in hindsight I knew better.

(33:07):

And um, but I was like, no, no, you know, this is great. I I'm gonna work on this stuff cuz that stuff is all great. And um, so that was, that was one of those like first mistakes. It's like, trust your gut and trust that you know what you're doing and it doesn't matter. Um, you know, how long a company's been doing things the same way. And then I'd say the second lesson that I learned was getting your team together and as fast as possible, um, uh, because it was primarily inherited. And again, when there's a group coming together, um, that was just a, that was a recipe for strife that could have been avoided. And I, um, had done this, uh, uh, this, uh, what's it called? G 100 training sessions. And one of the first pieces of advice is if you see a snake kill it, um, because you really do need to get your team together.

(33:57):

And then I would say the, the last two pieces of advice, um, one is you gotta have your team buy you. Cuz geographically they were in San Diego, I was in New York. And, um, there needed to, you just, you need some physical from you, you need to build trust and you do that physically. Yep. And I, so I worry about that and I worry about that in, in relation to the conversations being had now about remote working. It's just different. And then I would say the last thing is you just have a much better handle on financials. You can't trust a cfo, not that you not let me be very, very clear. Nothing untrustworthy happened. Um, but until you know it yourself

Julie (34:37):

Right.

Nada (34:38):

Perfectly, um, you're at a disadvantage. And I was at an, an enormous disadvantage. And so, um, and I never developed the relationships with the board that I should have. And they're a brilliant group of people who've had gone on and done really successful things. And so I recognize the mistakes that I made and the things that I needed to learn.

Julie (34:56):

Well that's, I mean this is such a, this is such the epitome of why I do this, right? These, these holy shit moments. Because, you know, my first thought is like, this was your first c e o position Right. As a, and you got fired from it. And so one, the, the fear of leaning in, I, I would think maybe you didn't have it. I think, you know, people are like, be c e o, there'd be some sort of fear and anxiety, but also excitement. I mean, you'd mix them both, but a lot of, because the first time you do anything, there's obviously some, I think that's natural to have some anxiety, but then being fired from it, you're like, oh, I'm a fail. You know, some people could be like, I'm a failure, I'm just gonna swim back in my hole. So I'm cur I'm curious about sort of the before and the after Yeah. How that, like how did you feel going in and then how did you feel going out and what did you do then coming out?

Nada (35:42):

Yeah. No, first of all it was devastating. Um, you know, getting called into a room and thinking that everyone's gonna tell you how fabulous you are and getting told you're fired is just like, oh. And, um, to the point that when I called people to say I was fired, they're like, no, no, seriously, how'd the meeting go? I'm like, no, no, no, I got fired. And it's like, no, no, no, seriously. Um, and so I think the first month you are a puddle and not moving and not getting out of bed cuz you think that you couldn't even get a job down the street at a, you know, any place at a local business. Um, because you're just think you're, the first thing you think of is your damaged goods. And you think that, um, you're, you're dumb. You're damaged goods, you're not gonna fit, you're not cut for this, cut out for this.

(36:24):

Um, and so you have to, for me it was about giving myself six months to a year to, and I, and you know, just give yourself a year to do something that's completely different that you just wanna be inspired. I, um, did this beautiful coursework in the south of France. I like, I I just did things that I wanted to do. Educational <laugh>, you know, it's al it always is. And the funny. Yeah. And so, um, and so I just took some time off and then, um, and then I got to decide what I wanna do. And the um, and the interesting thing came from Avery again. He was like, because he is been in the business, as you said, for a lot longer than I was. Um, he was like, well, think about, do you, maybe it's time to work somewhere where you don't have to be the brand or the reason people take the call.

(37:15):

And so when Carolyn Everson called me and, and, and you know, Carolyn is just an incredible human being and she had called it for earlier things and I was always like, no, you know, I kinda wanna go do a startup or, you know, I'm doing, you know, I'm gonna go do this verb thing. And um, and I was just like, wow, that is a, you know, you've got this superior product that works and that's important in the world and your job is to just not screw it up. It's like there's something pretty remarkable, um, and comforting about that so that you can fo you know, there's, there's so many people doing such great work, you can focus on your absolute strengths to build the business the way that, um, makes the most sense for the company and everybody. And, um, and so that was just incredibly inspiring and that's why I took the job. Yeah. And it took the job longer. I, I didn't quite get the six months off that I wanted, but I, or the year off. But, um, it was, it was, I was so ready and I was so excited.

Julie (38:10):

Yeah. And that was great. And that was meta. That was when you were that was

Nada (38:13):

Meta. Yeah, it was Facebook at the time.

Julie (38:15):

<laugh>, yeah. Facebook. Right. But that was your big one. I love, I love that. Um, and I think that that's, those are the kinds of takeaways that I think are really important for people to hear because that, you know, look at it bank, I think people hear the story of like, well, oh, you know, you failed, but then you went on and did this. But peop like, hearing from people really and raw about how that is what it takes. And it's, it is very human to feel that. And it's natural to feel that, but it's, it's not the end of the, it doesn't have to be the end of the world. Yeah. You, you know, and I think that that's really inspiring. So thank you for sharing that. Um, okay. So, and now I know you continue to be on these boards. You do these amazing things. You support the National Kidney Foundation, you're supporting us military families, like it's, you are the refugees that you were doing at Meta. I don't know if you're continuing that, but truly amazing. What, what's in, what's in store? How are you feeling? What's,

Nada (39:10):

Well I'm so, so tomorrow we have a an in-person board meeting and what's so for the blue for Blue Star families. Okay. And the cool thing about it is that they're always in Washington DC and the board is just an incredible board of badasses. And our new chairman of the board, um, is a retired lieutenant general, um, highest ranking woman. Highest ranking woman of color in the military when she retired. And she's just, she's talk about badasses. And so I'm gonna have, uh, coffee with her beforehand. And then I love to, this is, I'm gonna, I do sound like the biggest geek. Maybe you'll cut this out in post, but I'm gonna go No. And then I'm taking an extra day to just go to all the museums, cuz it's been a couple of years since I've been to all the museums.

Julie (39:52):

<laugh> so good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I love, uh, we'll just do a little for those people in DC I've been to DC a bunch. I love getting a, like a guide, somebody who knows everything and they drive you around to all the monuments and they tell you about the history, history and they get, I'm such a geek for that too. It's so fascinating. There's so much, there's so much there, you know. Yeah.

Nada (40:11):

Great. Yeah. So that's exciting. But I also, um, there's another organization that I've become a part of and it's called Live Girl. And it was founded here in, in New Canaan and what they do, um, and under Sherry West who's just absolutely brilliant and it is helping local women in high school who are going to go to college to get the mentorship and the funding to live while you're in college. Cuz a lot of college scholarships kind of give you the tuition and maybe a little bit for books or dorms and, um, but the idea of having mentorship and guidance so that you have a great career ahead of you in college and then after college. Um, and in all cases, um, either, uh, immigrants or first generation, um, English, not the first language, primarily women of color in Bridgeport and Stanford am it's so close to home. You, um, you hate to think that we can't take care of our own community so close to home. And, and so I was blessed, uh, two weeks ago to give five women, or you can almost say girls cuz they're in high school, um, $2,000 scholarships to help them with expenses and everything for their first year of college. So that's my new passion point too. I'm really excited about that.

Julie (41:26):

Oh my God, that's amazing. You know, and this is, this is just why I wanted you on here because, you know, you're just, every day like I I'm always so inspired by people like you. It's, I I mean truly it's an honor to know you and to just to be so grateful for the things that you do for everybody around you. I mean, you, you get what you give and, um, you, you give every single day. I think more than you get back, but what it will provide for others will, will give back to the world in some way. This has been awesome. Thank you so much for being on here, for sharing your amazing story. Um, love you and all that you're about. So thank you again.

Nada (42:04):

Uh, thank you so much for having me. Like I said, this is it, it's just been so humbling and let's be honest, I should be the one asking you questions cause your background is incredible and so, so, um, so I appreciate you so much. So thank you. Thank

Julie (42:20):

You Nana.