Paul Caine, President of On Location - Podcast with Julie Roehm
“My Conversational podcast guest, Paul Caine, wowed me with his #HoShiMo's! The story of his childhood, meeting his wife, college journey (he lived in a lobby), career shifts, start-ups, death of a child, establishment of a program in honor of that child, industry awards, are just the tip of the iceberg. Be entertained, be inspired, listen in!” - Julie Roehm
The marketing world is constantly evolving, and it takes extraordinary visionaries like Julie Roehm and Paul Caine to steer the ship. The conversation between these two trailblazers offers a fascinating glimpse into the future of marketing, reflecting their combined decades of experience and strategic acumen.
Julie Roehm, with her extraordinary career, has cemented her place as one of the industry's most influential figures. From her time at SAP to her current role as Chief Marketing and Experience Officer at Party City, her innovative approach has consistently proven instrumental in shaping brand narratives.
Meanwhile, Paul Caine's extensive tenure in the media industry, including stints as the CEO of Bloomberg Media and Westwood One, has given him unique insights into the dynamic interplay between media and marketing. His forward-thinking mindset has significantly contributed to the evolution of contemporary media strategies.
The dialogue between Julie Roehm and Paul Caine offers the quintessential exploration of modern marketing. Their conversation sheds light on how traditional marketing concepts are being overturned and transformed in the face of emerging consumer expectations and technology trends.
One of the main takeaways from their discussion is the pivotal role data plays in today's marketing landscape. Both Julie Roehm and Paul Caine emphasize the importance of leveraging data to understand consumer behaviors and preferences better. Their shared conviction highlights how harnessing data can empower businesses to create more personalized, relevant, and impactful marketing strategies.
In addition, they explore the concept of brand storytelling. Julie Roehm and Paul Caine agree that compelling narratives are integral to forging strong connections with audiences. In a world where consumers are inundated with marketing messages, storytelling emerges as a powerful way to cut through the noise and resonate on a deeper, emotional level.
And let's not forget their insights on the evolving role of marketing professionals. Both Julie Roehm and Paul Caine underscore the need for marketers to evolve beyond being mere communicators to becoming strategic business advisors. This shift demands a broader understanding of business operations, financial acumen, and an ability to leverage data for actionable insights.
Their conversation concludes with a discussion on the future of marketing. Julie Roehm and Paul Caine highlight the importance of agility, constant learning, and embracing change in the rapidly evolving marketing landscape. They advocate for a culture of experimentation and learning, where failures are viewed as valuable opportunities for growth and innovation.
And now, we circle back to you. As a marketer, business owner, or simply an interested reader, this conversation between Julie Roehm and Paul Caine should act as a beacon, illuminating the path towards the future of marketing. It's not merely about understanding the trends but about being an active participant in shaping them. As Roehm and Caine so eloquently put it, the future of marketing is ours to create.
About ‘The Conversational’ Podcast
"The Conversational," a podcast by Julie Roehm, is a cornerstone of insightful dialogues, a meeting point of intellects where the power of words shapes the future. Fueled by Julie Roehm's dynamism and her passion for innovation, it serves as an arena where ideas are exchanged, and voices of transformational leaders are heard.
Julie Roehm, a titan in marketing and business strategy, adds an extra layer of depth to every interaction. Her experience, coupled with her instinctive inquisitiveness, unlocks unexplored perspectives, making "The Conversational" more than just an auditory experience. It's a platform that bridges the gap between listeners and leaders, creating a channel for knowledge and inspiration.
Navigating through diverse industries, Julie Roehm explores the intricacies of technology, healthcare, marketing, and entrepreneurship. The podcast is a goldmine of stories — tales of challenges, triumphs, and visions that shape the future of these sectors. With Julie Roehm at the steering wheel, the journey is as enlightening as the destination.
The Conversational isn't merely a series of dialogues. It's a masterclass in understanding our ever-evolving world, a compass for those navigating the labyrinth of life and business. Julie Roehm's role is pivotal, her voice a beacon guiding listeners towards enlightenment and transformation.
Transcript:
Julie (00:00):
Hello. And welcome back to another episode of The Conversational. My name is Julie Roehm and today my guest is Paul Caine, which is very exciting. Most of mine are... I have exciting guests. This is a part of my stick, but Paul, and I go way back. And what was really fun as we just did a little bit of a prep call is just the reminder of just what a small world it is and almost 80% of my other guests are super entwined with his life too. So it's either a small world or we're just a really, I guess exclusive group, exclusive in that we don't get out much except for but let me tell you a little bit about Paul.
So Paul is president of On Location, which is a premier experiences leader and official partner of the NFL. Thank God, the NFL was back this year, acquired by sports and entertainment leader endeavor just last year in 2020 through partnerships with more than 150 rights holders, including the NFL, the NCAA, PGA of America and USTA and relationships with key festivals, musical artists, and other creators on location provides official and exclusive access for corporate clients and fans to memorable experiences at marquee events. I'm going to tell you about a memorable experience that had nothing to do with this job that Paul and I had together many, many moons ago. I can tell you he knows how to put on a good show.
Before he went to Endeavor and On Location, he has done amazing things like operating, transforming investing, small and large scale public and private businesses. Most recently, he was chief revenue officer at Bloomberg. He was chief executive officer of Westwood One and had many, many roles at Time Inc. over the last 23 years, which is crazy because 23 years in professional life is insane that can't be, including executive vice president, CRO and group president. He's also founder of PC Ventures, which is an investment and advisory company. Chairman of the board of Magnite and chairman of the board of Engine Group, where he also served as interim CEO.
In addition to all of that, he's held various industry leadership roles, including serving on the boards of the IAB, the RAB. These are the Interactive Advertising Bureau, the Radio Advertising Bureau and the MPA, which is the Association of Magazine Media, as well as the board member of retail franchising company. NexCen, I'm I saying that right? NexCen Brands?
Paul (02:27):
All right, that's fine.
Julie (02:28):
He's a philanthropic to the nth degree and the only blip in his illustrious career in life is that he went to Indiana University, Purdue alumni, we have to squint a little, but he was on the IU Media School, Dean Advisory Board and were also previously chairman of MusicCares, which is a national academy of recording arts and sciences. He and his wife, Pam are also the founder of Griffin Cares in honor of their son, Griffin and supportive families that have experienced the loss of a child. And he lives in the Jersey area with Pam and his three kids. And you're going to get to hear all about him. And obviously you got a little insight into one of his big [Hoshimoto's 00:03:11] already with his son, Griffin, but nice to have you, Paul. I'm so excited you're here.
Paul (03:15):
Wow, Julie, that was quite the readout. I want my mother to hear all of that. I don't know if my family could have done that. That's incredible.
Julie (03:24):
[crosstalk 00:03:24] call me.
Paul (03:25):
Well done. And Julie you're right, we go way back. I was thinking about leading into this podcast to the amount of history that you and I have shared over the many years. It's kind of wonderful.
Julie (03:36):
It is fun. And this has been such a, doing this podcast is just a passion project for me. I don't make money. I don't do the ads. I don't do any of that stuff. But it has been such a walk down memory lane. And I think I probably took a lot of my relationships for granted because we were just so busy in our careers and these people that you interacted with. And sometimes you had enough, at a conference, enough time to grab a drink and get to know people but this has been more personal, more personal time with all of these individuals and I have ever spent. And it's been truly a gift and fun to see just how we are all actually interconnected.
Paul (04:16):
I love that. Actually inspired me so much fun when we were talking about this podcast. And it reminded me of, I have a friend and colleague who actually is an editor at Good Housekeeping. She and I were together a team people and she, for her 40th birthday, did such an inspiring thing. She had dinner with 40 people who inspired her life and she recorded the dinner and wrote a blog about each dinner. And it was just incredible, inspiration to listen to her reconnect with people who had an influence on her life from grade school teachers to current career type people, to just friends, family members. And listening to just that it just made me think like, wow, our journey is filled with just people who just helped us one way or another shape our world.
And Julie, you are one of those people in my life. And so many of the people that you've spoken to are those people in my life. And I think we're all very privileged to have these relationships, to be along the journey. And during it, you don't even know the influence they're going to have on you, but when you look back 10, 20 years later, it's so clear the impact that they've had. And I'm always grateful for that.
Julie (05:36):
Yeah. I know it's special. When you talk about the impact, you, you're going to tell a story here, we'll get into it. But just about where we were both given an award at the same awards ceremony and how that was one of actually previous guests, Jackie Kelley had gone up to you. And I was thinking, "Oh I was with the Meredith team, the Meredith Magazine team had done a dinner for me at that. And I should really go back and talk to those..." These are the great opportunities to actually walk back and to do exactly what you were saying your friend did, from Good Housekeeping and just sort of reconnect. And I think in some ways, the pandemic, at least for me, is allowed me to... You have to think harder about connecting, because you're not going to randomly run into people, but at the same time, because we don't physically see people, it feels like you're further apart. It feels like it's longer, the time feels longer to me anyway.
Paul (06:30):
A hundred percent.
Julie (06:35):
Let's start with you going... My first question, always out of the gate, tell people, I know you had kind of an idyllic childhood, but tell them about where you were born, what your parents did, kind of your siblings situation.
Paul (06:49):
So if it's idyllic, let's start with that. I think I had a pretty normal childhood, I'll tell you that. I grew up in New Jersey, which is [crosstalk 00:06:56] enough and I don't know many people that would call that idyllic to start, I am a big fan of Jersey to start with. I did grow up in Jersey. But growing up, I was the middle child of three siblings, two sisters and older and younger, which probably explains a lot about the story of my life. I have my wonderful parents. My dad and mother were both in the dental profession. My dad is a dentist. My mom was a hygienist who later discovered her artistic side and decided to become a painter. And then ultimately she owned a picture frame store right over the border of New Jersey to New York State, which is called Pearl River, which is where the town that she was in.
And it was a great little store called Frame It Yourself where you go in and you pick out a picture frame and you'd frame it. You actually build the frame yourself. And you'd spend like two hours with my mother and then walked home with an amazing piece of work. But that was my parents. And so my whole world and orientation was very much towards dentistry, frankly. So I grew up-
Julie (08:06):
And you have lovely teeth and people can't see this because it's an audio only. But I just want to say, despite the fact that you clearly didn't go into dentistry, you had good habits growing up.
Paul (08:15):
Yes. My dentist reminds me of that. She goes, "You will die with every tooth in your mouth. Do not worry." Thank you.
Julie (08:25):
So when you were, you were kind of, I will say primed, to be a dentist, I guess, when did that change?
Paul (08:33):
So I was kind of a tale of two cities. So growing up, I kind of was raised to be a dentist. That was everything I was new for my whole life was that you're just going to fall in the family business because my grandfather was a dentist and it was just a long line of dentists, which sounds so exciting, doesn't it? And but at the same time I had this entrepreneurial spark because I just always felt like I needed to make money. So from a really early age, I started making money. So I was just about to turn 10 years old and my father to put himself through dental school was a magician. And so he did magic shows for kids parties. And I used to love going to my grandmother's house and playing in the attic and finding his magic tricks and putting on shows for my family from when I was like five, six, seven.
So right before my 10th birthday, my sister, she was a brownie of all things. And my mother was the troop leader and they said, "Oh, do you want to do a performance of your magic for the brand new troop?" And of course the 10 years old, they're like, "Yes." So I did. And it was probably the worst performance of all time, except this one brownie came up to me and said, "Can you do this at my birthday party?" And her mother said, "I'll pay you if you're willing to do it." And that sparked this entire idea of like, "Wow, I actually could make money doing this." So I ended up doing that and then it spawned this entire business for me for a while where I was doing magic shows for kids birthday parties so much so that my younger sister became my assistant. And we had this whole routine that we would do. And I had these incredible tricks that I was buying and it was fun. It was super fun.
And so I kept doing that and at the same time working to be a dentist, and then I needed more money and I got into sales. I started working at an appliance store called Trader Horn, which was the precursor to Best Buy. And I would sell televisions and washers and dryers and air conditioners and all these things. And I loved it and I just loved selling and I loved working with people. And I started making a lot of money at that age. For that age I was making decent money so I was on commission and I couldn't work enough hours because I was so excited about it. And I just really loved it. And then the combination of those two experiences and a whole slew of entrepreneurial efforts when I was a kid sort of informed my thinking.
The third track was I was also a musician. So I play piano and I play other instruments and I write, and so I always loved music and entertainment and performing. And so I always had that side of me too. So all of those things were happening. So at dentistry, I had this business entrepreneurial side and then I had this music side. So I graduated high school and I decided, "Okay, I'm going to go to dental school." So I applied to one college, Fairleigh Dickinson, and I got in and they had a program where you could do your undergrad and grad all at the same time. So I started my undergrad portion of it and I was on my way. And then after a year of it, I decided it wasn't for me. I made that decision literally on the car, on the way home from school with my father. And he said, "You're kidding. You're not going to be a dentist?" And I said, "No." And he goes, "What do you want to do?" And I said, "I don't know, but I kind of want to do something in business. And I want to do something in the world of entertainment, like music or something."
And he actually agreed. He thought that was a good idea because he said, "You probably would be better that than a dentist," because my passion wasn't for dentistry, his is and still is. So that's what really kicked off my whole and changed my life. I knew I had to go to school in the fall somewhere different. And my mom was very clear with me and she said, "You can't sit around, it's already almost July and you got to go somewhere. Where are you going to go?" And I said, "I don't know, but I'll figure it out." And I had really good grades. So I didn't think it was too big of a challenge. And I was watching HBO and Breaking Away came on and I was like watching it going, "Wow, that's a great movie. That place looks fantastic. Where is that college?" And at the end it was Indiana. And I said, "Oh my God, I'm going there." So I called them and said, "How do I transfer?" And they said, "Well, you send your transcripts. And if you meet our mark, you can come on out."
So I sent them overnight and got in a week later and packed up my car a couple of weeks after that and drove out to Indiana for the first time, never saw the school in person. Didn't even have a room, I lived in the lounge of a dorm that's because they didn't have a room for me. And then changed my whole life. And from there-
Julie (13:29):
Wait, you're sort of scripting yourself, because this is all very much about who you are. So you went after your first year of dental school, like on a whim, seeing the movie Breaking Away, going, living in a lounge, making it happen, but you not only had to go to this kind of out of the blue, this new school, but you had to get it done in three years, right?
Paul (13:49):
Yeah. I missed that part. Unfortunately we didn't have enough money to pay for more than that and so my parents were pretty clear that we can piece it together between loans and all this other stuff, because I had a really good deal at Fairleigh Dickinson because of grades and my dad was a professor at the dental school there. And so they were like, "You got to finish in three years, you got to finish on time." And I was like, "Oh no, how do I do that?" So I ended up doing over 20 credits a semester. So my peak was 22 credits, but most of it was about 20 to 21 credits a semester to graduate on time. And I did, and which was a feat and a half, but-
Julie (14:30):
[crosstalk 00:14:30] college is pretty young. Yes.
Paul (14:33):
I don't even know how I did it. I was taking so many classes at some times that it was hard to juggle. There's this one semester, I actually think I have two classes that overlap. So it was even hard to attend them at one point but you do what you gotta do.
Julie (14:48):
That's crazy. Yes. You probably didn't go to a lot of those, what they call the little five hundreds, right?
Paul (14:54):
[crosstalk 00:14:54] the bike race? Yeah, I went to everyone I could. I went to all three. I was there for three years.
Julie (14:58):
What was your inspiration? The movie-
Paul (15:01):
[crosstalk 00:15:01] had to go.
Julie (15:03):
Anyway. Okay. So then you got an internship. Did you get an internship while you were in college?
Paul (15:08):
Yeah.
Julie (15:08):
In the agency world?
Paul (15:10):
So I wanted to major in business at war music and I couldn't get a music major because I wasn't really a music major candidate and the business major required four years. So I knew I couldn't do that. So I had to be a business minor and they had a school at the time in communications, which... Because I also loved, I thought maybe I'll do filmmaking. Maybe I'll do on a television. I don't know. I had an interest in creative somewhere along the line. And so I was in the communication school and I took an advertising class by a professor who is one of my closest friends to this day.
Julie (15:48):
He is?
Paul (15:49):
Yeah, he is. His name is Walter Ganz. He's a huge mentor of mine. We're still in touch. My wife is good friends with his wife. He's just an amazing mentor. And so I took his advertising class and was blown away and I said, "Now that's what I'm going to do." So I actually had a family friend, my mom's best friend since kindergarten was married to a legend in our business. His name is Jay Burzon. And I called him actually one afternoon after my advertising class and said, "Jay, I really want to get into advertising, you are in advertising." He worked at Woman's Day and he was the publisher of Woman's Day at the time. And I said, "How do I get a job in advertising?" And he said, "Oh, I'll connect you to a few people." So he connected me to... Can't remember her name, but someone at CMB [Loretta Volpe 00:16:40] CMB, that's the CMB. And he also connected me to Joe Austra at Y&R.
And I was fortunate enough after interviewing with both, that they both gave me an offer. And I ended up taking an internship at Y&R in the spot television department. It was the main local television entering post buys, which was fantastic and loved every single second of it. And it was amazing event that's when I decided, "Okay, I'm in. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to become a media planner." And I was lucky enough after that to interview and get a job at J Walter Thompson, which really was phenomenal because they had a great training program at the time where they recruited real candidates. They hired them, they trained them over one year period, very arduous training program. And I had an amazing boss at the time. His name is [Doug Hawk 00:17:37] said, and also one of my best friends to this day. He actually signed who stood up for me at my wedding as part of my-
Julie (15:49):
Oh my God.
Paul (17:47):
And he and I are super, super, super close but he hired me out of college and gave me my first opportunity and there it went.
Julie (17:55):
That's so funny. It's funny this part of this story is, so like a mutual friend of ours who was also a big time anchor Mark Ford, he talks about-
Paul (18:06):
[crosstalk 00:18:06] at the J Walter.
Julie (18:07):
He's a Cleveland... And he was like, "I wanted to work for an agency all my whole life I was going to... I had to work for JWT, I had to work for the best agency." And he tells a story about like living in his car and the phone booth and calling and working basically for free because they didn't pay anything, but it was everybody's dream. If you were going to be an advertising in the 70s, 80s, even probably early 90s, JWT was the pinnacle of that experience.
Paul (18:35):
It certainly was. Jim Patterson was the president of JWT, the author and we were surrounded by incredible creative people. And we were incredible creative people and interesting people and it was right. I joined two years before Martin Sorrell bought-
Julie (18:58):
Paul (18:58):
So I was the one. Actually, the funny story about Sorrell Martin and he'll never remember this, but I was in a cube right outside what became his office. And when he purchased JWT, he moved into the office right outside my cube that day and I used to talk to him all the time. I don't think he remembers a minute of it, but I just found every conversation with him so interesting because he came from a completely different field and he wants it to be in this field. And I just thought his level of curiosity and business acumen was so fascinating and inspiring to me that I didn't know what life was going to become with him. Certainly I was such a young person myself, but I look back to those moments and think, "Wow, what an influence he had too."
Julie (19:44):
I mean, it's kind of fun to think back when Martin was just building the empire, which is great when he was doing that. It's an amazing thing that you could be there with him when, when he was doing that anyway. And they couldn't be outside as a young absorbing all of it. All right, let's talk about the rest of all these crazy coincidences. So you left, you ended up leaving JWT and why, where'd you go?
Paul (20:09):
So I couldn't afford to stay there. So I still went Mark. I was working all the time and it costs me more to work there than they were paying me. And I was going into more and more debt. It was insane. And, I only worked there for about a year and a half in total, but I was out to lunch one day and it was the craziest thing. You go out to lunch in those days with like a media rep and either you would eat at the most expensive restaurant in New York, or you wouldn't have a bagel and butter. Those are the two choices. And so anytime a rep would ask me to lunch, I'm like, "Aha, I'm there." I'll sit front row at the U.S. Open Women's Final. I call them someday like, what are the two? It was crazy.
So I got invited out to lunch by the publisher working woman, her name is Barbara Bella, and she we had a great lunch. And at the end of the lunch she said to me, "You'd be really good in sales. Would you ever consider that?" And I said, "Of course," thinking you all trust really well and you must get paid really well. So I said, "Of course, I'd love to talk about it." And a week or two later, after a couple of interviews, she offered me a job and it inspired me because they said, "Wow, that is great." I declined the job. Thanked her for very much and thanked her and said, "You gave me the best idea because I'm not the person who should work for Working Mothers, because I'm far from that profile. However, I'm going to go get a sales job." And then I went down my passion list and one of my favorite things every day was to read USA Today.
So I called over to USA Today and got a hold of this guy named David O'Brasky, who was the New York manager. And I got an interview with him and he introduced me who was the ad director. And the two of them offered me a job. They offered me a job as a very, very junior sales rep selling what used to be called books and records, which is the worst list you could ever get at the time, because there was no money in it, but I was so excited to be there. And it was more money than I was making it at J Walter Thompson, but definitely not a lot of money but I loved it. And I started selling there. And again, what an incredible journey because to work for people like Cathie Black, who was the publisher and David. And then my New York manager who was also a legend in our business.
And one of my very close friends to this day is this woman named Laura Schroff, who was the number one salesperson there. And all of them were really formative in my thinking. So I worked there a year and I was doing well and I was actually selling some interesting things. My favorite seller of all time was big basketball fan, college basketball specialty from Indiana. And I was watching the NCAA Final Four that year and one of my clients was Bristol Myers and the Final Four Dick Vitale was broadcasting it. And he was talking about how he was naming his All-Windex team. The guys who cleaned up the boards, the best we've done. And I was like, "Oh my God." So I called my client to Bristol Myers and said, "I had this idea, why don't you sponsor the actual scholarship of the All-Windex team? And we'll do it in USA Today and maybe Dick Vitale will come on board." And they did. So we created that program, which lasted many years, by the way. And that I found exciting because I was like, "Wow, you can literally come up with an idea and someone's going to buy it. That's unbelievable."
Julie (23:56):
[crosstalk 00:23:56] impact. It was a scholarship. So it was like a double goodness, right?
Paul (24:01):
Yeah, totally. And we gave a thousand dollars a week to the All-Windex team. And then there was an end of season prize after that. And then I got a call back from Jay Burzon, he was the publisher and one of the owners of American Health and they just bought Psychology Today. And he said, "Hey, would you consider coming to work for me at Psychology Today?" And of course, because of the family relationship and how much I really admired him and his work, I agreed and I went over to Psychology Today. It was a big mistake because I should have learned my lesson from Working Woman because I'm not the Psychology Today person. So why am I working in Psychology Today? And although I'm probably a good patient, but I'm not necessarily the person that would represent the product. And I really just didn't like that job. And I was doing well, I just didn't like it.
And I was out to lunch with my manager at USA Today who went over to people and he said, "Oh if you're not happy at Psychology Today, we need more really good people at People would you ever consider coming over here?" And then at that time in the late 80s, working at Time Inc. was the best publishing job you could get by far. And I could not believe that they would have been considerate. So I of course took the interview. I spent an entire day interviewing with people who are unbelievable and to this day, some of the best people that ever walked in this industry, and by the end of the day, they actually gave me the offer. And I accepted it, of course, and then started at People which led to a 24 year run.
Julie (25:41):
It was a major holy shit moment for you, just that you just had no idea what that would do, but what's so interesting is that... It's multiple things. One, look like Barbara, I was Working Woman of the Year, one of them one year. And by the Working Mother of the Year, I was never the Working Mother of the Year. I can tell you that, as much as I was working and my husband had to be a stay home dad, because I was like, "God bless Barbara for thinking of us and trying to give working moms..." It was very tough back then. And so I love... I mean, while maybe working moms wasn't right for you, and all the things you're about to tell us at Time Inc. is amazing. I love that these people that you've interacted with are such trailblazers in their own. I love the story of your trailblazing because you're about to share that.
But I think trailblazers beget trailblazers and there's some sort of magnetism and I love that as for the people who are listening and when they think about the holy shit moments in their life, and how do you get there? It's not luck or chance. It is aggressively the little subtle things that you're talking about is I'm having lunch, I stayed in touch, my professor; there's some work that goes in there of understanding the benefit of that human connection with people that makes a huge difference. And it's not only inspiring, but it's like we are on the backs of each other. I had to jump in there with it because your story is so interlaced with so much goodness of that.
Paul (27:13):
Well, I couldn't agree with you more. It's not that we're on the backs of each other, we're actually locking arms with each other. And I also feel it's really important that we lock arms with the next generation too. And I spend a fair amount of my time speaking with people coming into the industry, wanting to go even into college. And I'm deeply connected to my university still. And I find anytime that we can help somebody, the way I was helped is such a gift. And to this day, I'm still helped, every day I'm still helped. There are people that are constantly helping me. And I'm always thankful for everybody's help and assistance because in the end of the day, we're in a very collaborative industry that requires us to work together in a very high functioning way. And you learn those skills early on, to be that partner and be trusted and caring and supportive and never forget it because no one's too good when they don't need the help. Everybody needs the help.
Julie (28:15):
Everybody needs the help. And you don't sometimes even know how much you're helping somebody by just doing something that's simple and that you would never even think twice about. Okay. I didn't want to take you off your rhythm.
Paul (28:26):
No, it's okay.
Julie (28:27):
People now you're at like the most exciting, especially late 80s, early 90s, such a great place to be a Time Inc. the best publications magazines. I mean, totally different era.
Paul (28:40):
Yeah. Walking off the elevator that first day, I had such a rush of energy that I actually experienced with again a year ago when I took this job. So I'll explain that later. But I had such a rush of energy of knowing I was part of something pretty special. I just couldn't believe that I was part of it. And I was so happy to be there. In fact, my manager at the time kept walking by my office going, "why are you smiling all the time? You're so happy." I said, "Because look where we are, this is amazing." And he's like, "Oh, you'll get over that." But I never did. I just loved it. And I was a salesperson there for a few years. And my then manager he three years later, his name is Peter Bauer, he's still another good friend of mine too, he gave me my first opportunity to manage, and I became a New York manager, which at that time at Time Inc. was a big deal, especially being... I was just about just almost turning 30. So I was really young and it was a little young to be a manager. In fact, almost everybody in my group that I managed was older than me. So it was a little bit weird but it was really exciting for me.
And I thought I was really on the right path. And ultimately, I was like, "Wow, if I could only become the ad director of people, that would be a life dream." And, little did I know that walking down the hall one afternoon when I was... Actually I just turned 31 at the time, so it was 1996. I think it was, Anne Moore was the publisher and she was walking down the hallway and she stopped my office and she said, "Paul, every year the age of people goes up a year and it worries me because at some point we're going to become irrelevant." This is back in like 1991, 1992 ish, somewhere around there. And I was taken back by that honesty, which I loved. And she said, "You're the youngest person here. How do we get more young people to read People?" And I took it on as a bit of a project and I worked on it. And after a bit of time, we're thinking through all these different scenarios of what we could do.
I was actually watching two of my favorite shows on a Wednesday night, 90210 and Melrose Place. [crosstalk 00:31:07] And my daughter, who was a toddler, was sitting on the floor playing and it occurred to me when I was looking at all the teen magazines in front of me while I was watching the shows. It occurred to me that I didn't want her reading those magazines because they were all about beauty, fashion and boys. And I just didn't like it. And I thought there's got to be a way for people to come up with a teen idea that would appeal to something that would be proud my daughter to read. And I went back to my team that I was working with on it and we started kicking around the idea and we then wrote a business plan for teen people. And Nora McAniff, who was the publisher of People at the time, she loved the idea and she was really a champion of it. And she worked with us because I didn't know enough at that time, but she worked with us to develop a really smart business plan for it.
We had an editor, I won't say his name. It was a guy. And he wrote what was supposed to be the editorial of our ideas that we were going to test. And I actually thought it was a terrible idea with everything he was writing. And we knew that we were up against what was called then sort of like a shootout between two ideas. And it was between a Teen People as an idea were People en Espanol and the publisher People en Espanol, the person who was championing that one was her name was Lisa Quiroz, who was literally one of the most brilliant people in the magazine industry ever. She was doing great on her idea. And then it was our idea for Teen People. And we're running out of money and research, and we were coming up against the shootout. And I thought, "Okay, if this editorial is not going to work, we're never going to get there."
So I called up my sister, who's a high school math teacher in New Jersey. And I asked her if we could come out and talk to her students and she said yes. So we went out and drove out to Glen Rock, New Jersey and pitched the idea of Teen People as that editor outlined it. And within a very short amount of time that the teenager said it was terrible. And I took out of my bag, People Entertainment Weekly and InStyle. And I said, "Here are the three properties that we have. If we were to make a teen magazine that was inspired by these three properties, what would it be?" And they came up with the idea for Teen People. And then we quickly wrote about it. We wrote it all down, stopped at a burger place on the way home. And I said, "You know what's interesting about this is that nobody who works on this property are readers of this property. So no matter what we do, we're not reading it. So we need to stay connected."
And we came up with the idea of a product called transponders, which was a group of teens that we could stay connected to, to keep us relevant, similar to the Glen Rock teenagers. And then we came back and pitched Teen People. And then the good news is, Don Logan, who was the CEO of Time Inc. and Ann Moore looked at our idea and looked at People en Espanol and actually gave People en Espanol full funding, and then gave us half funding and said, go. And we thought that was a victory. So we got to launch Teen People with half funding, which we were thrilled with.
Julie (34:35):
What year was that?
Paul (34:37):
We ended up launching in 1998. So it took a little bit of time because we first had to get an editor, which we hired Christina Ferrari, a brilliant editor. And she really came up with the ultimate idea of that editorial. She hired an entertainment editor called Lori Majewski, who's actually a personality on Sirius XM and an author. And the two of them really, really fine tune that came up with what became Teen People. But once we got them in place and it took about a year, once we got them in place to ultimately launch. So we launched in February of 1998.
Julie (35:14):
And that's where you and I met. I'm trying to think of when... Because I was at Ford launching the Ford Focus in the United States for the first time. So the Focus has been around now, obviously a long time, but we launched it actually on the MTV VMAs on 9/9/99. So it was [crosstalk 00:35:34] but the ongoing launch is when you... So this was like the cocktails and the events you took myself and somebody, and we were like, "We're going to get together and we're going to work a program together. We're going to craft it together." You didn't take me to Jersey, which I don't know if I would've thought was cool. Although coming from Detroit, it might've been, instead we went to Santa Fe and I got the worst sunburn of my life, but we sat outside and we crafted this whole trend spotters tour, because the focus was geared at young people.
So I remember everything about that trip. I remember going to see the museum of Harry Connick Jr's wife's mother.
Paul (36:18):
That's right. The one who designed the coins, Sacagawea Coin.
Julie (36:27):
I have the Sacagawea Coin in my wallet to this day.
Paul (36:31):
[crosstalk 00:36:31] yes.
Julie (36:35):
I'm telling you, it's a week but we created this last, a little memory lane moment. But we created this really cool tour that the car itself was on tour with the transponders, with the music. We were probably one of your first sponsors, but we were both really young. I mean, I was 29. This was like a big deal for both of us, both kind of career making things.
Paul (37:02):
It really was. I remember that so well because the Santa Fe concept was... I was the associate publisher at the time and the publisher was she had this idea of doing these go away trips with groups of interesting, smart people to come up with interesting, great ideas. And that one was such a good one because we did go out to Santa Fe and we did come up with that tour. And what we did is we booked a band called The Moffatts and we put them on tour around the country, they're a Canadian band. And we had parking lots filled with driver age teenagers, doing test drives and seeing music and combining it with fashion. And it was great. I remember the local dealers, the Ford dealers were so excited about bringing it out with energy. They did more test drives with parents and teenagers through this product. It was so much fun.
Julie (37:57):
Yeah, it was so much fun. But I mean, those were very moment making and we were just young enough to not know better. And to think that you could do... This is right, this is going to make a big difference, this is going to be great for this for our customers, all kinds of customers. I mean, there's a lot of specialness of just seizing the day, I think in that anyway. I love that part of the story and how you built that. And I loved that I was part of your early part of your Teen People, because it was such an amazing platform.
Paul (38:27):
But Julie, you weaved in and out of my whole story, you're in and out of this whole thing, because that's one common thread is a lot of your work. You're very much dovetailed into mine on the list.
Julie (38:38):
So then after you, because obviously you ended up running Teen People and-
Paul (38:43):
I actually went back to be the associate publisher People around 9/11 and it was during a very pivotal period because 9/11 had huge impact on our business and everything. And then I was asked to go back to be the publisher of Teen People, which I did. And they then through the work we did at Teen People, they tapped me to be the publisher of Entertainment Weekly, which I was so excited about, it was a big entertainment fan as you've heard. And I just thought that was such a great move for me. And then very quickly they asked me to be the publisher People. And that was a dream because as you remember from the early part of my story, I just was glad to work there. The idea of becoming the publisher was beyond a dream come true.
And it was also at a great time because Martha Nelson came in as the editor in chief of the property. And she became an incredible partner and we really worked hard to develop some really innovative programs. So it was a time where us was going from monthly to weekly. And what we did was we put our heads together and said, how do we ultimately prevent the erosion of People with us going weekly? Part of which was the teen audience was migrating to the celebrities. And so we ultimately folded the Teen People. It was one of those rare moments where I had the privilege of launching and also the responsibility of folding the same property. It's kind of a rare thing in our business.
Julie (40:29):
Very.
Paul (40:31):
So we folded it, but I learned then a real good, important adage is never take away anything without replacing it with something better. And it's a lesson for life. Never say no, or never take away anything, unless you replace it with something better, same thing with a job, same thing with your friends. There's no such thing as elimination, you have to always consider how do you upgrade? Before we folded Teen People we came up with StyleWatch, which was a brand that was all about celebrity style. It was aimed at the market and ultimately it proved to be really successful and that's where we went with it.
On top of which the people under Martha's leadership, we started building really terrific relationships with celebrities. And then we also decided that we wanted to have a stronger position in the world of entertainment. So I went out and worked with the team and secured the official magazine status at all the award shows, starting with the Grammys which is how I got involved with The Narrow and MusiCares. We also did the Emmys, SAG Awards, everything, all the award shows ended up being part of the People family. The exception of The Globes, which InStyle did. And then even with the Academy Awards, they didn't allow official properties, but to this day, people still populate the grand stamps with their readers. So the people that you see up in the stands along the red carpet are people leaders. It was a great moment for us and they still work that red carpet program to the state. Susan Parkes, who's the head of marketing there, she and I worked together and worked on building that, and she's still carrying that legacy forward and doing a great job on it.
Julie (42:21):
That's amazing. And so we're about to go, and I'm trying to figure out the best way for you to weave in kind of your personal life, because you talked about your kids and I want to make sure we'd give the story about how you met your wife, because it's a great story. So, let's talk about how you... the serendipity of timing of things with thinking about what comes next and then all the things that were happening with Time Inc. and how that worked out.
Paul (42:55):
Sure. Really quickly from the rest of my career is, after becoming a publisher of People, Martha and I sort of grew up on a business side and the editorial side in parallel. So she took on one titles, I took. And so I ended up becoming the president of the style niche team or group overseeing InStyle and People en Espanol in essence and People and a few others, and then Entertainment Weekly was part of that. And then ultimately she became the editor in chief and I oversaw the revenue side of the business as the EVP, overseeing all the different US-based titles. And then that was a really precarious time because we were going through a lot of transitions and ultimately people over the years, kept trying to recruit me and I was always flattered, but never really entertained the idea, but there was this one persistent group that just kept coming at me to get into radio.
And I just really wasn't that interested initially, but then they just kept coming at it and they gave me this really very strong offer and I was starting to consider it, but then Jeff Bewkes, the CEO of Time Warner, called me and said, "Come down to the conference room, I have some news." We walked down to the conference room. It was all my peers, Mark Ford was one of them. And he told us that he was spinning out the company. And my heart because I didn't know what the future of Time Inc. was going to be at that point. But I had this offer and I explained that to Jeff privately, and we talked about it and I said my aspiration is to be a CEO. I really wanted to see what if that could be in my career. And I knew I couldn't be the CEO of Time Inc. at the time, I didn't have the experience to do a spin out. I wasn't the right person. But I really felt it was important that I tried to be a CEO and to be the CEO of this radio company, it seemed like the right step.
It was a hardest decision. One of the hardest decisions I've ever made in my life. Actually, I'll tell you, leaving Time Inc. felt like I was getting divorced. It was an awful feeling, at the same time as exciting. And it was very emotional, but I did and I went to this company called DIAL Global which I renamed later with a team to Westwood One and with the intent of his private equity deal and the intent was to sell it. And one of the people I started to build the relationships with who was the CEO of Cumulus offered the opportunity to buy Westwood One pretty quickly. And it was a really good offer and we accepted it. And eight months later I found myself, sold the company and out of a job. And it was crazy as it could be.
Julie (45:48):
Three months. I mean a three month flip is like-
Paul (45:53):
I worked there literally for nine months total, it's three months sell, six months closed. It was [crosstalk 00:45:59].
Julie (45:59):
I mean, which is good. And that was the right thing to do because it turned you onto the MNA and-
Paul (46:07):
A hundred percent, I learnt so much from that. And I realized that was such a good future pace for me. And then I was going to actually start PC Ventures at that time and start really taking the money. I was lucky enough to earn during that time and start putting it to work for myself. But Jackie Kelley convinced me otherwise. Jackie Kelley, who was at UM at the time and Mediabrands. She wanted me to come work for them at the agency side, which I knew wasn't for me, but it opened my eyes to think about other options. And I had talked to a bunch of people, one of which was Bloomberg. Justin Smith was the CEO of Bloomberg Media. And Mike was coming back from being mayor and I wasn't that intrigued by it. I was actually going to go take another job somewhere else. And then Jackie quickly called me again and said, 'Well, why wouldn't you go to Bloomberg?" And I said, "Because, I think this other job is really for me." And she said, "Now let's do it together." I said, "What?" And so she revealed she was going to go to Bloomberg and I said, "Well, if you're going to go, then I'll go." And so we went together and that's how I ended up at Bloomberg.
And I worked there for two years for Jackie and working with Mike Bloomberg was one of the things that I just cherished so much. He's such a good mentor and he's such a good leader. And working with Jackie was phenomenal. You talked about serendipity. The one key hire I made at the time was, my head of digital who ended up, when I met him, I got introduced to him by Justin Smith. I had breakfast with him before I accepted the job. And he was one of the main reasons I ultimately told Jackie, "Yes, I'll do this." His name is Keith Grossman. And we had breakfast and within five minutes, I said, "Keith, we're going to work together." And I didn't even have the job and I hired him and I offered him the job, the head of digital. Long story short, I said to him, "The reason why you're coming is because I'm not sure how long I'm going to be here because I still want to do PC Ventures, but I want you to be my replacement." And so I hired him to be my replacement before we both even started.
And he is still one of my closest friends and he did replace me ultimately, when I decided to stop working, he's the one who replaced me. And he's now the president of TIME and just crushing it, he's doing such a good job.
Julie (48:37):
Amazing. And now you're here with doing your.... You've got to do your PC ventures, but letting-
Paul (48:44):
I did Pc Ventures for a short time but I still miss being part of a company and I love entertainment and I love sports. And another relationship I had was Mark Shapiro, who worked with me at People when he was the CEO of Dick Clark. He produced our awards programs, our television programs. And I called him up and said, "I missed being part of the team and missed the whole thing." And he shared me his vision for Experiences, which I completely loved. And I agreed to come on to be the President Obama if they acquired it and it took them a year, but they did acquire it. And I had that same feeling walking into that job that I did the first day, I walked into People and I tell people all the time, "This right now, is literally my favorite job I've ever had and only second to the publisher's job with People if there is one." This has been a dream.
Julie (49:43):
I love that you've been able to combine that, all of this goodness with just what I think an amazing personal life you have. So quick before we wrap up, I would love just to give a little bit of the personal side... You have to tell the story of how you met your wife because that's the best story and then talk about of course Griffin and then your kids.
Paul (50:04):
Sure. Of course. Thank you. So I met my wife when I was growing up. We actually went to nursery school together, but we didn't know each other but I did meet her when I was 15. We were away on the weekend, at the same weekend serendipitously, but I happened to be with my girlfriend and she was gone with her friends and I was sitting on the bus when she and her friends walked on the bus. And immediately, when I saw Pam, I knew she was... I don't know, something about it just really struck me. So I literally broke up with my girlfriend and on the spot and I wanted to go and spend the weekend with Pam, which we did, but I was 15 years old and we were way too young. She was 13, she was way too young.
And so we left it there on the weekend, but when I got home, I told my mother. My mother said, "How was the weekend?" And I said, "It was great. I broke up with my girlfriend though." And she said, "Oh." And I said, "It's fine. I think I met the girl I'm going to marry." And she said, "Oh." And I said, "Yeah, but she's too young so forget it." And that was it. Fast forward a number of years, in my mom's frame store, in walks Pam one day, my mom chats with her and my mom says, "Look, I never do this, but can I set you up with my son?" And Pam who saw my picture on the wall said, "I know your son, but he'll never remember me." So she gave my mom the phone number. I said, "Mom, that's the girl I'm going to marry." And she said, "Well, you should call her. She's awesome." So I did. And it's been amazing ever since.
So I've been married for... Oh my goodness, I got married in 1989, my wife's going to kill me. It's like 32 years.
Julie (51:37):
Yeah, it's 32.
Paul (51:39):
Oh my God. So it's been amazing. And we had my daughter who I mentioned to the inspiration behind Teen People who works with L’Oréal right now. And she's actually heading to a business school in the fall at Harvard, I'm really proud of her.
Julie (51:54):
Wow.
Paul (51:55):
Then we had my second son Griffin and he was a healthy, healthy young boy. And unfortunately he had one of the most scariest things of all time. He died suddenly as an infant and had completely wrecked us and changed our lives in many ways. And when Griffin died, I remember turning to Pam and we just said, "He's too young." It's like he didn't even get a chance to live his life and to have impact on anyone else. And we vowed at that moment that whatever we did, we would have to give him in his name the opportunity to affect positively other people forever. And we had to come up with an idea and we did officially come up with an idea of building a park in our town called Griffin Park, which we do have here that was built in his memory.
But then Pam and I had this other idea of creating a program to support other families who've lost a child and Pam really wrote the program and developed it and it's called Griffin Cares. And it's headquartered in a local hospital here and it's been helping hundreds and hundreds of families and women who have lost a baby either through miscarriage or after birth or even later. And they run a monthly support group and materials and training for fast responders and healthcare workers on how to handle families who lost a child. Because when we lost Griffin, we had no support or very little support. And now we want to make sure that people never had that. And what John legend and Chrissy Teigen went through, is exactly the kind of support that we provide many people. And, so I'm really proud of that.
And then we went on to have two other children, Ryan who's graduated, most recently at Cornell and he is working at Monalisa as an engineer. And then my youngest one is graduating school in Boston this spring, and he's a musician and he's hopefully wanting to embark on his music producing career.
Julie (54:04):
You got all three and they each got a little bit of you and all your passions.
Paul (54:07):
It's fun that way, isn't it?
Julie (54:10):
Yeah.
Paul (54:10):
I love that.
Julie (54:11):
I love that. And I love the Back to Sleep Campaign that you helped create?
Paul (54:19):
Before we founded Griffin Cares, I was on the board of CJ Foundation for SIDS because we found them to be the greatest support we had at the time. And they were great; Joel Hollander and his wife Susan founded it for their daughter college Hannah. And Joel was the head of ABC Sports Radio at the time. And then he ultimately became the CEO of Westwood One, which is an interesting connection point. I was proud to work on CJ. And one of the things that... The research that we heard was when you put your child on their sleep, if you put them on their back then you could reduce the rate of SIDS by half. And it was just a simple thing. So Joel and I looked at each other and said, "Well, if we can raise awareness, let's do that."
So we worked at Jerry Della Femina and came up with a campaign called The Back to Sleep Campaign, which is literally that put your child on their back to sleep, ran it everywhere, donated millions of dollars worth of Time Inc. media to support it and radio time through watching Joel, and then really begged and pleaded with anyone we could think of to get more ad space for it and ran a free, totally free campaign, which ultimately literally reduced the rate of SIDS in half, which is how you and I met because... Well, we met before, we met at a Ford Focus, but the story of the AAF Award, which is till this day sone of my most proudest moments. I won that award maybe because of my career, but also because of the work I did philanthropically on that. And it was such a great way for us to raise awareness too, to keep telling that story of just how to prevent child death.
Julie (56:03):
Yeah. I remember very well. So you and I were both at AAF, it was the hall of achievement, but it was... I'm trying to remember that, it's younger. So when we were both-
Paul (56:13):
Under 40.
Julie (56:14):
Right. And so there was you and me, do you remember the others? There were two others.
Paul (56:23):
I don't actually remember who [crosstalk 00:56:25]. You're the one I remember every time.
Julie (56:26):
I know, you're the only one I remember too. I'll have to go back and look, but you're the only one I ever remember, clearly from it. But I remember your speech so well, because you talked about this and it was something that I thought was just so poignant because we were all there living in the glow of people thinking that we were at a young age, we're doing great things with our careers. And I just remember thinking, "Yeah, but Paul is making people's lives better." I don't know why people keep driving in Ford Focus. I mean, I hope it's a good experience, but I don't know that their lives better, but you are saving lives.
And I remembered I'm not... Because my oldest who I had by that point in time, I had both my boys, but my oldest was eight weeks premature. And so I had done the work with the March of Dimes because for premature birth and trying to give back that way, but I was never anything close to what you had done. And I was just really so impressed and just so admired what you were able to do with your career at the same time, making such a huge impact on the lives of so many. So honestly, I'm the half of so many families out there. Thank you for all that you've done.
Paul (57:42):
Well, thank you. I mean, my wife gets a lot of the credit, honestly, because she really has done so much for Griffin Cares, but also that same AAF ceremonies is where I met Jackie, because she went to the stage right after that speech and said, "We don't know each other," although we actually did, because we worked together at USA Today, 20 years prior. She said, "We don't know each other, but I loved your speech so much. We're going to be friends." And you know what, we did, we had lunch week later and became friends. And it became a very long relationship since then. So to how we started this whole conversation of, it is all about the people you meet along the way and the intersections you have and the profound impact that everybody has in each of those lives. But I'm super grateful for you in my life and for all the people that came across my world as well. And to all the people in the future, I just feel so thankful that I have had this career and thankful for the people that have been part of it.
Julie (58:38):
That's what this is all about. It's the who you know, not what you know. So thank you for sharing your story. I know that this is going to be a huge hit with People, it'll make such a big difference. And I'm just glad that I finally got you on here. So thanks for being my guest.
Paul (58:55):
Thank you, Julie. I really appreciate it. It was really fun. Thank you.
Julie (58:55):
Thank you.